@bikegremlin said: and take a look at the mod-dump section - all cleaned up
Just out of interest, if you have a post just disappear, is that what's happened to it?
I'm asking because I posted something that I thought was pretty innocuous a couple of weeks back and when I checked the thread the next morning it'd just vanished, and disappeared from the list of comments list via my profile too. If stuff does get removed like that, shouldn't we at least be told if it's infringed some rule and been culled?
Yes. The idea is to achieve two things:
Keep a "written" proof for why any actions were taken (saving the infringing posts or spam causing a ban for example).
"Two heads are smarter than one" is a local saying - this lets other guys check and confirm.
Sometimes, when not 100% sure, we consult before taking any action.
Sometimes, if more drastic action is taken (bans or deletions for example), we make notes to get 2nd opinions, even if personally 100% sure it was the right call.
This makes it a bit more work, but it is an important safety measure to prevent any abuse by admins and mods.
@bikegremlin said: and take a look at the mod-dump section - all cleaned up
Just out of interest, if you have a post just disappear, is that what's happened to it?
I'm asking because I posted something that I thought was pretty innocuous a couple of weeks back and when I checked the thread the next morning it'd just vanished, and disappeared from the list of comments list via my profile too. If stuff does get removed like that, shouldn't we at least be told if it's infringed some rule and been culled?
Are you implying that moderators have to justify their actions?
No, I'm suggesting that if a post is deemed to be unsuitable and removed, it'd make sense to at least tell the poster that it was unsuitable so that they don't continue making similar posts in the future.
Very often (though not always) that is the case.
We generally tend to send PM notes before any more drastic measures - giving people the benefit of the doubt and the way to make things right. Sometimes "bad posts" are a result of misunderstanding, language barriers or similar, but sometimes people are indeed spammers or dicks.
@Fritz said: @bikegremlin Agree.
Any action should be logged for our own good, improvement for staffs and members.
That policy was already established when I got the bucket & mop - and it is a good idea.
My suggestion was to introduce firing squads and public executions of spammers, but that was discarded due to budget restraints and local legislation (some countries still forbid such stuff - how they keep their population in check is beyond me)?!?
@bikegremlin said: and take a look at the mod-dump section - all cleaned up
Just out of interest, if you have a post just disappear, is that what's happened to it?
I'm asking because I posted something that I thought was pretty innocuous a couple of weeks back and when I checked the thread the next morning it'd just vanished, and disappeared from the list of comments list via my profile too. If stuff does get removed like that, shouldn't we at least be told if it's infringed some rule and been culled?
Are you implying that moderators have to justify their actions?
No, I'm suggesting that if a post is deemed to be unsuitable and removed, it'd make sense to at least tell the poster that it was unsuitable so that they don't continue making similar posts in the future.
True. But this would also force the mod to explain in the message why an action was done, so you know the reasons.
If sending a private message for every post that has been removed would increase the workload on the mods/admins.
Especially if, let's say 50% of the messages turn into an argument on why the poster thinks the mod has done something wrong.
Then a public thread, and heated arguments from people who only wants to stir up more drama.
I would suggest that if you find a post removed and you REALLY want an answer to why it was removed, open a ticket in the helpdesk and hope that the mod/admin that removed your post remembers why it was removed.
@bikegremlin said: and take a look at the mod-dump section - all cleaned up
Just out of interest, if you have a post just disappear, is that what's happened to it?
I'm asking because I posted something that I thought was pretty innocuous a couple of weeks back and when I checked the thread the next morning it'd just vanished, and disappeared from the list of comments list via my profile too. If stuff does get removed like that, shouldn't we at least be told if it's infringed some rule and been culled?
Are you implying that moderators have to justify their actions?
No, I'm suggesting that if a post is deemed to be unsuitable and removed, it'd make sense to at least tell the poster that it was unsuitable so that they don't continue making similar posts in the future.
True. But this would also force the mod to explain in the message why an action was done, so you know the reasons.
If sending a private message for every post that has been removed would increase the workload on the mods/admins.
Especially if, let's say 50% of the messages turn into an argument on why the poster thinks the mod has done something wrong.
Then a public thread, and heated arguments from people who only wants to stir up more drama.
I would suggest that if you find a post removed and you REALLY want an answer to why it was removed, open a ticket in the helpdesk and hope that the mod/admin that removed your post remembers why it was removed.
Isn't this like a carte blanche for mods to do whatever they want, even bend or create exceptions to rules?
@bikegremlin said: and take a look at the mod-dump section - all cleaned up
Just out of interest, if you have a post just disappear, is that what's happened to it?
I'm asking because I posted something that I thought was pretty innocuous a couple of weeks back and when I checked the thread the next morning it'd just vanished, and disappeared from the list of comments list via my profile too. If stuff does get removed like that, shouldn't we at least be told if it's infringed some rule and been culled?
Are you implying that moderators have to justify their actions?
No, I'm suggesting that if a post is deemed to be unsuitable and removed, it'd make sense to at least tell the poster that it was unsuitable so that they don't continue making similar posts in the future.
True. But this would also force the mod to explain in the message why an action was done, so you know the reasons.
If sending a private message for every post that has been removed would increase the workload on the mods/admins.
Especially if, let's say 50% of the messages turn into an argument on why the poster thinks the mod has done something wrong.
Then a public thread, and heated arguments from people who only wants to stir up more drama.
I would suggest that if you find a post removed and you REALLY want an answer to why it was removed, open a ticket in the helpdesk and hope that the mod/admin that removed your post remembers why it was removed.
Isn't this like a carte blanche for mods to do whatever they want, even bend or create exceptions to rules?
As @bikegremlin already said, things are discussed between the mods and logged.
If there were to be a mod/admin that abused his/her powers, that person would be removed from the team.
If you ever get the feeling that this is going on, feel free to PM me or Mason and we will talk
On the topic of the OP, I haven't been overly active here lately due to being in more of a shitposting mood than a constructive mood. LET is the place for shitposting and being a nuisance and LES is for being a good helpful person.
Which one of you idiots ruined this lovely place?
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@bikegremlin said: and take a look at the mod-dump section - all cleaned up
Just out of interest, if you have a post just disappear, is that what's happened to it?
I'm asking because I posted something that I thought was pretty innocuous a couple of weeks back and when I checked the thread the next morning it'd just vanished, and disappeared from the list of comments list via my profile too. If stuff does get removed like that, shouldn't we at least be told if it's infringed some rule and been culled?
Are you implying that moderators have to justify their actions?
No, I'm suggesting that if a post is deemed to be unsuitable and removed, it'd make sense to at least tell the poster that it was unsuitable so that they don't continue making similar posts in the future.
True. But this would also force the mod to explain in the message why an action was done, so you know the reasons.
If sending a private message for every post that has been removed would increase the workload on the mods/admins.
Especially if, let's say 50% of the messages turn into an argument on why the poster thinks the mod has done something wrong.
Then a public thread, and heated arguments from people who only wants to stir up more drama.
I would suggest that if you find a post removed and you REALLY want an answer to why it was removed, open a ticket in the helpdesk and hope that the mod/admin that removed your post remembers why it was removed.
Isn't this like a carte blanche for mods to do whatever they want, even bend or create exceptions to rules?
As @bikegremlin already said, things are discussed between the mods and logged.
If there were to be a mod/admin that abused his/her powers, that person would be removed from the team.
If you ever get the feeling that this is going on, feel free to PM me or Mason and we will talk
I'd also add - based on my experience of how stuff runs (vs how it used to be run) in my country:
No amount of regulation and "transparency" can make up for having bad, corrupt people.
Similarly, if people are decent and "normal," regulations are a needless complication.
With all that in mind, people can make mistakes or turn corrupt over time, so it is good to have some checks in place.
There is no perfect solution, of course. But we're trying to hit the optimal middle ground. See what works, see what could be improved. Some people will always find moderation to be lacking - either for being too lenient ("why is this allowed?!") or for being too strict ("why was this removed?!"). As far as I can tell, the admin/mod team guys are acting with best intentions, and doing the best they can. One can't ask nor expect more from people (people can't do better than their best, they can only slack and do worse).
P.S.
As he's been called out in this thread (firstly by me), it's fair to note that @FrankZ does a huge amount of work, regularly asking for 2nd opinions for most decisions that are "big/important" (besides the regular everyday spam cleanup) - I can't thank him enough, nor ask for more.
Shitposting is carpetbombing the entire place while missing a target.
Usually shitposting can cause thread derailment, or thread takeover thus changing it's subject and/or keeping the said thread alive, more than it's intended lifespan.
A vigilant community member can accuse someone for offtopic.
A moderator can make the shitposter warned or banned from thread for offtopic.
Trolling is precision airstrike towards a target.
It can cause for someone to become rearhurt and offended, and/or the offending side could get a warning.
A successful troll, doesn't get warned, because he knows the safe boundaries of operation.
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[Off Topic] BTW @bikegremlin, It looks as though I'm gonna settle for 48/36T chainwheel with 13/34T ("Granny Gear") 7sp f/w. Took it for quick spin yesterday and reckon it 'ticks all the boxes'.
@AlwaysSkint said:
[Off Topic] BTW @bikegremlin, It looks as though I'm gonna settle for 48/36T chainwheel with 13/34T ("Granny Gear") 7sp f/w. Took it for quick spin yesterday and reckon it 'ticks all the boxes'.
That's pretty good. "Fast" enough for most flats on the high end (unless it's a slightly downward slope with a hurricane at your back, or you're racing against people downhill), and "slow" enough for all but the very long climbs (with a heavily loaded bike or in a very poor shape).
Though, if you find it lacking on either end, 50-34 cranks are relatively common, affordable, and will make a slight difference on both ends, while not messing up with the gearing (as your cassette starts with 13, not 11 or 12 teeth).
Comments
Yes. The idea is to achieve two things:
Sometimes, when not 100% sure, we consult before taking any action.
Sometimes, if more drastic action is taken (bans or deletions for example), we make notes to get 2nd opinions, even if personally 100% sure it was the right call.
This makes it a bit more work, but it is an important safety measure to prevent any abuse by admins and mods.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
@bikegremlin Agree.
Any action should be logged for our own good, improvement for staffs and members.
https://microlxc.net/
Very often (though not always) that is the case.
We generally tend to send PM notes before any more drastic measures - giving people the benefit of the doubt and the way to make things right. Sometimes "bad posts" are a result of misunderstanding, language barriers or similar, but sometimes people are indeed spammers or dicks.
I thought everyone would get that reference!
Are grandma and spilling good at least?
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
That policy was already established when I got the bucket & mop - and it is a good idea.
My suggestion was to introduce firing squads and public executions of spammers, but that was discarded due to budget restraints and local legislation (some countries still forbid such stuff - how they keep their population in check is beyond me)?!?
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
All good; it's @Fritz that has the problem with sticks staffs.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
its just a sign of growth. its a phase.
I bench YABS 24/7/365 unless it's a leap year.
@ralf
If sending a private message for every post that has been removed would increase the workload on the mods/admins.
Especially if, let's say 50% of the messages turn into an argument on why the poster thinks the mod has done something wrong.
Then a public thread, and heated arguments from people who only wants to stir up more drama.
I would suggest that if you find a post removed and you REALLY want an answer to why it was removed, open a ticket in the helpdesk and hope that the mod/admin that removed your post remembers why it was removed.
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
Easier to stop bad behavior while growing then to try and clear the mess when it's out of control.
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
this act of cleaning is part lf the phase too..
I bench YABS 24/7/365 unless it's a leap year.
True!
I'm glad we have a hard-working team (me excluded) that keeps this place somewhat family-friendly.
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
Isn't this like a carte blanche for mods to do whatever they want, even bend or create exceptions to rules?
How are you... online?
As @bikegremlin already said, things are discussed between the mods and logged.
If there were to be a mod/admin that abused his/her powers, that person would be removed from the team.
If you ever get the feeling that this is going on, feel free to PM me or Mason and we will talk
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
ROFL. Back leg chickens are highly prized.
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On the topic of the OP, I haven't been overly active here lately due to being in more of a shitposting mood than a constructive mood. LET is the place for shitposting and being a nuisance and LES is for being a good helpful person.
Which one of you idiots ruined this lovely place?
Get the best deal on your next VPS or Shared/Reseller hosting from RacknerdTracker.com - The original aff garden.
I'd also add - based on my experience of how stuff runs (vs how it used to be run) in my country:
There is no perfect solution, of course. But we're trying to hit the optimal middle ground. See what works, see what could be improved. Some people will always find moderation to be lacking - either for being too lenient ("why is this allowed?!") or for being too strict ("why was this removed?!"). As far as I can tell, the admin/mod team guys are acting with best intentions, and doing the best they can. One can't ask nor expect more from people (people can't do better than their best, they can only slack and do worse).
P.S.
As he's been called out in this thread (firstly by me), it's fair to note that @FrankZ does a huge amount of work, regularly asking for 2nd opinions for most decisions that are "big/important" (besides the regular everyday spam cleanup) - I can't thank him enough, nor ask for more.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
Shitposting is carpetbombing the entire place while missing a target.
Usually shitposting can cause thread derailment, or thread takeover thus changing it's subject and/or keeping the said thread alive, more than it's intended lifespan.
A vigilant community member can accuse someone for offtopic.
A moderator can make the shitposter warned or banned from thread for offtopic.
Trolling is precision airstrike towards a target.
It can cause for someone to become rearhurt and offended, and/or the offending side could get a warning.
A successful troll, doesn't get warned, because he knows the safe boundaries of operation.
The thing is we all love transparency right?
like most of the EU citizens.
https://microlxc.net/
You missed the point; there is no plural of staff unless you mean a bunch of long sticks.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
So if I’m understanding the thread properly, I need to absolutely ruin this place to make restore the normal order of things?
I can say I understand the logic but I’m nothing if not accommodating.
But seriously, didn't you have something about that in your signature some time ago?
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it's in his DNA!
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
Ahh, he of good memory, unlike me. Was on OGF, IIRC.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
[Off Topic] BTW @bikegremlin, It looks as though I'm gonna settle for 48/36T chainwheel with 13/34T ("Granny Gear") 7sp f/w. Took it for quick spin yesterday and reckon it 'ticks all the boxes'.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
You've gotten close!
(Along with a Yeti and an obsessed Chinaman)
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
That's pretty good. "Fast" enough for most flats on the high end (unless it's a slightly downward slope with a hurricane at your back, or you're racing against people downhill), and "slow" enough for all but the very long climbs (with a heavily loaded bike or in a very poor shape).
Though, if you find it lacking on either end, 50-34 cranks are relatively common, affordable, and will make a slight difference on both ends, while not messing up with the gearing (as your cassette starts with 13, not 11 or 12 teeth).
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
^ Limited by freewheel (rather than cassette) options and more importantly cost.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
I’m beginning to think you shouldn’t be allowed outside your house, let alone on the internet.
I thought that version was staves.
I try not to venture out.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
The composer stuffs the staves into the first verse, with great verve.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)