Rearrange into a common phrase:
"a barge pole with wouldn't touch"
From day one, I could see the mettle of a particular 'provider'. It was obvious by the questions they asked, IIRC.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
I see a problem if those warnings from the community about the service vanish from the offer thread, as they are directly connected to the sales made over that forum.
But it's not like this is the first time I'm saying it, so... whatever.
Some people want to be protected from themselves, others want more freedom.
Can't please them all (not even Jesus could do that, apparently).
My thinking out loud:
LES is a buyer beware market. Always has been.
There is community feedback - reviews, discussions etc.
A problem with high quality standards is that they are inherently exclusive.
I'm all for that - even suggested rising the maximum price limit hoping it would help see more high quality offers.
Of course, we could enforce stricter vetting (regardless of the max. price point), but there is a point past which it becomes impossible to satisfy very strict criteria (you can't reasonably expect top-class service at too low prices, so some compromise is innevitable - unless it's a pump n' dump / deadpool / summer host scheme).
With all that considered - it still up to the community to decide. But you can't have your cake and eat it. Stricter provider vetting, or more offers? We do remove the real, undisputed frauds and scams.
Regarding the offer thread cleanup:
I have no interest whatsoever in helping any provider make more or fewer sales. It's just my judgement of what's good, informative, and acceptable vs what could be regarded as provider bashing. It's never going to be perfect nor please everybody (it is also worth noting that even "bad" comments still keep a thread on top for any new visitors as far as I know, and we all know the mantra of "there is no bad advertisment").
Inclined to agree. It's to some extent self-regulating. If a provider wants to launch straight into the bottom end of the market and develop a rep accordingly so be it.
I doubt many are buying high end plans off this provider after how the specials went.
Poor uptime and overprovisioning is far more problematic for me than deadpools. i.e. pay 12 months and get 3 out of it. Ideally would have neither but to me the one is fraud while the other is more like a bad product, so not quite the same qualitatively in my eyes.
Enabling bogus behavior does lead to evolution of malice via over-tolerance. Do not support bad behavior. Minimum standard exists for a reason. c1v is beyond bottom and should be picked up like dog shit in the garden. To keep everything nice and tidy.
"Buyer beware" goes for the blokes buying service from purple daddy and knowing that he is convicted fraudster.
On the biggest cycling forum in my native, there is a member who posts loads of funny videos (in two separate threads/sections for the non-cycling-related, and the cycling-related), interesting articles (same, two sections), and similar. Daily. It seems to annoy many members, but it is in the appropriate forum sections.
The main difference is that the same member often posts very good replies for any technical questions, buying help/tips etc - helping countless other members.
In this case, it seems a bit one-sided on that account. However, it is fair to note that more than half the posts were technically legit industry-related news.
Note:
LESbian flags and reports are very, very helpful.
Even when no one acts upon them immediately, we keep an eye on the "offenders" and act when we are certain what the best course of action is.
Banning folks is what we don't take likely, but sometimes it is necessary.
@bikegremlin said: and act when we are certain what the best course of action is.
Extreme left will be the reason of this forum demise. Sad. You see spammer = you remove spammer. No thinking, no excuses. Keep operations clean and tight. Spammers feel no regret, no remorse. They spam and eventually scam.
@bikegremlin said: and act when we are certain what the best course of action is.
Extreme left will be the reason of this forum demise. Sad. You see spammer = you remove spammer. No thinking, no excuses. Keep operations clean and tight. Spammers feel no regret, no remorse. They spam and eventually scam.
Extreme?
No firing squads, no re-education centres... c'mon!
It's not even left, not really - far from the extreme.
IMO, trigger-happy mods are just as bad as the idle ones.
Also, what you can see in the forum's front end is just the tip of the iceberg.
There is a lot of cleaning being done on a daily basis.
@vyas said:
Why is this post allowed and my very informative post about Datacenter Industry in Phillipines deleted?
Just because the OP is a web host?
Very unfair ... I call this double standards.
I used to be a content writer/ contributor fur fact's sake.
If you think this is spam (and it is my understanding that you do), why are you doing the same?
I've just moved several threads to the mod dump.
What I perceive and what I publish are mutually exclusive. Did I report this post as spam? Did anyone report my post as spam? Have a nice day. @Mason,
this needs deliberation.
I have no axe to grind with any mods personally, but this is ad hoc. And I call out the Mods for being deliberate, capricious and unjust. Just because another poster is a host, gets preferential treatment, LES turning into a gratis LET now?
@vyas said:
What I perceive and what I publish are mutually exclusive. Did I report this post as spam? Did anyone report my post as spam? @Mason,
this needs deliberation.
I have no axe to grind with any mods personally, but this is ad hoc. And I call out the Mods for being deliberate, capricious and unjust. Just because another poster is a host, gets preferential treatment, LES turning into a gratis LET now?
Fair enough.
I'll hang up my mod boots by Monday (to allow the time for other mods/admins) to take over or find replacements (one not excluding the other, of course).
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
No my friend, you are doing a fine job, tough as it is- to be fair the issue is implementation of the rules, do reconsider, I will stop here now. We are a small community, we may squabble occasionally ( and we should, keeps the "Spirit" high).
I am retaining my previous messages- reflection of what I felt about the issue, not the person. That was my intent. I leave it at that.
Best regards,
@vyas said:
No my friend, you are doing a fine job,
Doesn't look like it - LOL.
No hard feelings, but I think resignation is a proper ethical act, when the community you serve is not happy with the job you're doing.
FWIW I hope you reconsider; don't take a few squeaky wheels as speaking for "the community", we're better off with you than without!
To clarify:
It's no PMS, nor getting butthurt by any comment or user in particular.
No LESbian is to blame.
I can say publicly that I have no ill feelings towards LESbians who've criticised (or praised my work for that matter) - quite the contrary, love & respect.
It's just a general feeling that it would be wise to quit.
Like Jürgen Klopp.
@vyas said:
No my friend, you are doing a fine job,
Doesn't look like it - LOL.
No hard feelings, but I think resignation is a proper ethical act, when the community you serve is not happy with the job you're doing.
FWIW I hope you reconsider; don't take a few squeaky wheels as speaking for "the community", we're better off with you than without!
To clarify:
It's no PMS, nor getting butthurt by any comment or user in particular.
No LESbian is to blame.
I can say publicly that I have no ill feelings towards LESbians who've criticised (or praised my work for that matter) - quite the contrary, love & respect.
It's just a general feeling that it would be wise to quit.
Like Jürgen Klopp.
Jurgen knew when it is time to change politics good move
@bikegremlin said: I'll hang up my mod boots by Monday (to allow the time for other mods/admins) to take over or find replacements (one not excluding the other, of course).
Wow!
@bikegremlin said: It's just a general feeling that it would be wise to quit.
I hope you change your mind! You are a good mod! Modding is hard. It involves occasional ambiguities. When someone like you is trying, as you are, to do a great job, these occasional ambiguities can seem troubling. Please don't self-criticize too much!
I'll start with the topic of this thread. I'm in 100% agreement and alignment with @bikegremlin's comment above. There's a delicate balance for left and right guard rails for the community and no matter what you do, somebody will take issue with it. Ultimately it comes down to laying out some general rules and using your gut and instincts to judge when to take an action.
@vyas if you ever feel a mod action has been taken that you don't agree with, need further clarification, or want reviewed, please just message us or open a ticket. Would rather us hash it out on the side rather than open up the can of worms here. I also don't feel the staff here are being "capricious and unjust", but would like to hear why you think that.
@bikegremlin, I sincerely appreciate you and your dedication to LES these past few years. If there's anything I can do to get you to reconsider or if you just want a break to think about it, please let me know. I realize you've picked up almost the entirety of the grunt work and admin tasks due to my lack of presence. Think it may be time to ask if there's any other masochists that want to join the team to take some of the burden off of you (if you decide to stay, that is). Regardless of your decision, I'd like to thank you on behalf of LES for everything you've done for the community!
@Mason said: Think it may be time to ask if there's any other masochists that want to join the team
Happy to help if my help seems appropriate. If it would be better for me to give up my provider tag here and/or my provider tag and my mod position at OGF I could do whatever seems best. I think LES is wonderful! I am glad LES is here for all of us! Thanks Mason!
I'll start with the topic of this thread. I'm in 100% agreement and alignment with @bikegremlin's comment above. There's a delicate balance for left and right guard rails for the community and no matter what you do, somebody will take issue with it. Ultimately it comes down to laying out some general rules and using your gut and instincts to judge when to take an action.
@vyas if you ever feel a mod action has been taken that you don't agree with, need further clarification, or want reviewed, please just message us or open a ticket. Would rather us hash it out on the side rather than open up the can of worms here. I also don't feel the staff here are being "capricious and unjust", but would like to hear why you think that.
@bikegremlin, I sincerely appreciate you and your dedication to LES these past few years. If there's anything I can do to get you to reconsider or if you just want a break to think about it, please let me know. I realize you've picked up almost the entirety of the grunt work and admin tasks due to my lack of presence. Think it may be time to ask if there's any other masochists that want to join the team to take some of the burden off of you (if you decide to stay, that is). Regardless of your decision, I'd like to thank you on behalf of LES for everything you've done for the community!
If you ever need the Yeti I will be happy to assist.
Comments
Rearrange into a common phrase:
"a barge pole with wouldn't touch"
From day one, I could see the mettle of a particular 'provider'. It was obvious by the questions they asked, IIRC.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
I see a problem if those warnings from the community about the service vanish from the offer thread, as they are directly connected to the sales made over that forum.
But it's not like this is the first time I'm saying it, so... whatever.
Some people want to be protected from themselves, others want more freedom.
Can't please them all (not even Jesus could do that, apparently).
My thinking out loud:
LES is a buyer beware market. Always has been.
There is community feedback - reviews, discussions etc.
A problem with high quality standards is that they are inherently exclusive.
I'm all for that - even suggested rising the maximum price limit hoping it would help see more high quality offers.
Of course, we could enforce stricter vetting (regardless of the max. price point), but there is a point past which it becomes impossible to satisfy very strict criteria (you can't reasonably expect top-class service at too low prices, so some compromise is innevitable - unless it's a pump n' dump / deadpool / summer host scheme).
With all that considered - it still up to the community to decide. But you can't have your cake and eat it. Stricter provider vetting, or more offers?
We do remove the real, undisputed frauds and scams.
Regarding the offer thread cleanup:
I have no interest whatsoever in helping any provider make more or fewer sales. It's just my judgement of what's good, informative, and acceptable vs what could be regarded as provider bashing. It's never going to be perfect nor please everybody (it is also worth noting that even "bad" comments still keep a thread on top for any new visitors as far as I know, and we all know the mantra of "there is no bad advertisment").
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
Perfect, LES should reflect the world we live in. No one even vets the things you buy IRL so why should the mods and admins do the work for you here?
Free Hosting at YetiNode | Cryptid Security | URL Shortener | LaunchVPS | ExtraVM | Host-C | In the Node, or Out of the Loop?
Inclined to agree. It's to some extent self-regulating. If a provider wants to launch straight into the bottom end of the market and develop a rep accordingly so be it.
I doubt many are buying high end plans off this provider after how the specials went.
Poor uptime and overprovisioning is far more problematic for me than deadpools. i.e. pay 12 months and get 3 out of it. Ideally would have neither but to me the one is fraud while the other is more like a bad product, so not quite the same qualitatively in my eyes.
Enabling bogus behavior does lead to evolution of malice via over-tolerance. Do not support bad behavior. Minimum standard exists for a reason. c1v is beyond bottom and should be picked up like dog shit in the garden. To keep everything nice and tidy.
"Buyer beware" goes for the blokes buying service from purple daddy and knowing that he is convicted fraudster.
Because they are the ones who give the " provider" tag
"How miserable life is in the abuses of power..."
F. Battiato ---
Govt gives business licenses yet they are not required to vet beyond reasonable means.
Free Hosting at YetiNode | Cryptid Security | URL Shortener | LaunchVPS | ExtraVM | Host-C | In the Node, or Out of the Loop?
Whoops that should read LESS not more
Regarding the latest events:
On the biggest cycling forum in my native, there is a member who posts loads of funny videos (in two separate threads/sections for the non-cycling-related, and the cycling-related), interesting articles (same, two sections), and similar. Daily. It seems to annoy many members, but it is in the appropriate forum sections.
The main difference is that the same member often posts very good replies for any technical questions, buying help/tips etc - helping countless other members.
In this case, it seems a bit one-sided on that account. However, it is fair to note that more than half the posts were technically legit industry-related news.
Note:
LESbian flags and reports are very, very helpful.
Even when no one acts upon them immediately, we keep an eye on the "offenders" and act when we are certain what the best course of action is.
Banning folks is what we don't take likely, but sometimes it is necessary.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
Extreme left will be the reason of this forum demise. Sad. You see spammer = you remove spammer. No thinking, no excuses. Keep operations clean and tight. Spammers feel no regret, no remorse. They spam and eventually scam.
Extreme?
No firing squads, no re-education centres... c'mon!
It's not even left, not really - far from the extreme.
IMO, trigger-happy mods are just as bad as the idle ones.
Also, what you can see in the forum's front end is just the tip of the iceberg.
There is a lot of cleaning being done on a daily basis.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
If you think this is spam (and it is my understanding that you do), why are you doing the same?
I've just moved several threads to the mod dump.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
What I perceive and what I publish are mutually exclusive. Did I report this post as spam? Did anyone report my post as spam? Have a nice day.
@Mason,
this needs deliberation.
I have no axe to grind with any mods personally, but this is ad hoc. And I call out the Mods for being deliberate, capricious and unjust. Just because another poster is a host, gets preferential treatment, LES turning into a gratis LET now?
———-
blog | exploring visually |
Fair enough.
I'll hang up my mod boots by Monday (to allow the time for other mods/admins) to take over or find replacements (one not excluding the other, of course).
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
No my friend, you are doing a fine job, tough as it is- to be fair the issue is implementation of the rules, do reconsider, I will stop here now. We are a small community, we may squabble occasionally ( and we should, keeps the "Spirit" high).
I am retaining my previous messages- reflection of what I felt about the issue, not the person. That was my intent. I leave it at that.
Best regards,
———-
blog | exploring visually |
Doesn't look like it - LOL.
No hard feelings, but I think resignation is a proper ethical act, when the community you serve is not happy with the job you're doing.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
meh you are not going anyway Mr.Bikegremlin
You have the power and the community is nice working. Please,reconsider your idea asap .Thanks !
I believe in good luck. Harder that I work ,luckier i get.
to be continued over Raksi .
———-
blog | exploring visually |
noo @bikegremlin
Keep up the good work: a stern warning prior to the ban hammer?
P.S. I find the imok flans spams a PITA!
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
FWIW I hope you reconsider; don't take a few squeaky wheels as speaking for "the community", we're better off with you than without!
To clarify:
It's no PMS, nor getting butthurt by any comment or user in particular.
No LESbian is to blame.
I can say publicly that I have no ill feelings towards LESbians who've criticised (or praised my work for that matter) - quite the contrary, love & respect.
It's just a general feeling that it would be wise to quit.
Like Jürgen Klopp.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
Oh no, ya don't!
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
Jurgen knew when it is time to change politics
good move
Wow!
I hope you change your mind! You are a good mod! Modding is hard. It involves occasional ambiguities. When someone like you is trying, as you are, to do a great job, these occasional ambiguities can seem troubling. Please don't self-criticize too much!
Thanks very much for everything you do for LES!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
Alright....
I'll start with the topic of this thread. I'm in 100% agreement and alignment with @bikegremlin's comment above. There's a delicate balance for left and right guard rails for the community and no matter what you do, somebody will take issue with it. Ultimately it comes down to laying out some general rules and using your gut and instincts to judge when to take an action.
@vyas if you ever feel a mod action has been taken that you don't agree with, need further clarification, or want reviewed, please just message us or open a ticket. Would rather us hash it out on the side rather than open up the can of worms here. I also don't feel the staff here are being "capricious and unjust", but would like to hear why you think that.
@bikegremlin, I sincerely appreciate you and your dedication to LES these past few years. If there's anything I can do to get you to reconsider or if you just want a break to think about it, please let me know. I realize you've picked up almost the entirety of the grunt work and admin tasks due to my lack of presence. Think it may be time to ask if there's any other masochists that want to join the team to take some of the burden off of you (if you decide to stay, that is). Regardless of your decision, I'd like to thank you on behalf of LES for everything you've done for the community!
Head Janitor @ LES • About • Rules • Support
Happy to help if my help seems appropriate. If it would be better for me to give up my provider tag here and/or my provider tag and my mod position at OGF I could do whatever seems best. I think LES is wonderful!
I am glad LES is here for all of us! 
Thanks Mason! 
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
If you ever need the Yeti I will be happy to assist.
Free Hosting at YetiNode | Cryptid Security | URL Shortener | LaunchVPS | ExtraVM | Host-C | In the Node, or Out of the Loop?