Hello again LES - Things are probably going to change a bit, here are my ideas, I want your input.

24

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  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee ModeratorHosting ProviderOGServices Provider
    edited May 6

    @AnthonySmith said: yep, personally if it was all about me, we would be on vBulletin

    I'm sold. Feck it. Bring back vBulletin.

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  • @AnthonySmith said:

    @somik said: This is what I see:

    >

    oh.. I have made a note: user image upload support, push through imagemagick, strip metadata/exif, compress, move to slow storage based on last access time.

    You can also consider postimages.org (if UK people can still access it...)

    If you need more options, see check my other suggestions here. I uploaded those images in Sep 2025 and if they are still up, those image hosts should work for your needs.

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  • WSSWSS OG

    @havoc said: Could even make WSS a mod

    Surely, you jest. It'd be one hell of a troll. Might as well make @yoursunny one, too.

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  • @WSS said:

    @havoc said: Could even make WSS a mod

    Surely, you jest. It'd be one hell of a troll. Might as well make @yoursunny one, too.

    I speak fluent sarcasm and broken logic. | I would agree with you, but thæn we’d both be wrong.

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    @imok said: Simple 2 line ads on mobile every now and then or 300x100 grayscale images. Colorful gifs only on desktop. Maybe use Google Ad Manager or similar to handle campaigns?

    I am already shocked at how many people are suggesting ads haha, unexpected, but ok valid opinion.

    I'm not wild about ads (and I've no idea if you have enough non-signed-in traffic for it to be worth it), but I do get that bills need paying. I'd echo other suggestions that donations would be a nice option to have (although again, from bitter experience you won't get a tenth of what you need without constant Wikipedia-like harranging)

  • WJJWJJ OG

    I'm a pretty inactive user here, so appreciate my opinions carry little weight, but I shall offer them anyway as a long time lurker across all the various LowEnd communities.

    Of the points raised, the majority are platform related:

    • Offer post format (location)
    • New user onboarding
    • Ticket/support system/integration
    • Active providers/wiki
    • Thanks
    • User tags
    • Blog/micro blog/content
    • The right hand column generally
    • Community notes
    • Flagging/Moderation/edits

    Its unfortunate that Discourse seems to be the marmite of forum software (and doesn't have Pagination). I found it a pleasure to use from an admin perspective when I stood in on HB for a while and I think it would fit or be able to be adapted to fit the majority of the issues above.

    However, in my opinion, Vanilla is part of the DNA of the "LowEnd" community and I think it would be a shame to see it go. Developing something bespoke would be admirable, though I would question the short term resource sink and the long term sustainability of that kind of approach.

    Otherwise, ads works - we are all technical enough to install an ad blocker if we really find them offensive. A second admin (or other staff) is a good shout to spread the load. Changes to offers, offer prominence or display locations are all reasonable and sensible and I dont see any reason not to.

    Good luck! I am lurking from a distance!

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith AdministratorHosting ProviderOGSenpai

    @WJJ said:
    I'm a pretty inactive user here, so appreciate my opinions carry little weight, but I shall offer them anyway as a long time lurker across all the various LowEnd communities.

    Of the points raised, the majority are platform related:

    • Offer post format (location)
    • New user onboarding
    • Ticket/support system/integration
    • Active providers/wiki
    • Thanks
    • User tags
    • Blog/micro blog/content
    • The right hand column generally
    • Community notes
    • Flagging/Moderation/edits

    Its unfortunate that Discourse seems to be the marmite of forum software (and doesn't have Pagination). I found it a pleasure to use from an admin perspective when I stood in on HB for a while and I think it would fit or be able to be adapted to fit the majority of the issues above.

    However, in my opinion, Vanilla is part of the DNA of the "LowEnd" community and I think it would be a shame to see it go. Developing something bespoke would be admirable, though I would question the short term resource sink and the long term sustainability of that kind of approach.

    Otherwise, ads works - we are all technical enough to install an ad blocker if we really find them offensive. A second admin (or other staff) is a good shout to spread the load. Changes to offers, offer prominence or display locations are all reasonable and sensible and I dont see any reason not to.

    Good luck! I am lurking from a distance!

    If you took the time to have an input then it's valid.

    Good point about vanilla, I really hate to say it but I feel like it's in the DNA aswell, I don't think small targeted changes and updates will work on top of vanilla and some optional themes and layouts will be the win.

    But I won't know until I get started.

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  • WSSWSS OG

    Changing from Vanilla to DIscourse would be a direct record scratch. Another Forum-based, but out-of-web-1.0 era like Flarum would be accessible to most of us, and we wouldn't really care. I mean, after 20 years of TextPattern, I adopted Grav in a day. I do not like the endless-doomscroll sites. I stopped being an active member of OpenWRT when they went from a forum to Discourse because I just don't like it. So, that's one way to get rid of me.

    I agree that we're far too small to really expect providers to make LES-specific specials, but it doesn't really help that we appear to be the cross-eyed shorter cousin of LET.

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  • These are some high level points:

    • Ads, donations, sponsorships, and/or digital sales are probably needed if one of the goals is to be as self-sustaining as possible. I feel for a small team operation for a primarily community service, Revenue - Costs <= $500, or therabouts

    • LES should find its niche. Something not easy to find and a community could certainly help with is to categorized low end providers that can be used for alpha, beta, and production workloads suitable for startups / small business / hobby

    • In addition to short term projects, I'd also like to see some members run long term projects (ideally on lowend providers) and share how its done for others to learn - tierhive is a great example of that. Another one - how to create a global ping service

    • On public forums, there tends to be waves of animosity. It happens, but having realistic reviews would help with some of that and realistic expectations for providers

    • Deals won't be exclusive on a public forum for long. Maybe one option is to offer it to active members for X days before releasing it publicly. It will take coordination from the providers as well

    • Switching out of Vanilla would be a good idea. But, all the forum software options are love/hate

    • In the end, I believe this could be a very useful place to learn and build business connections and that's valuable for certain service providers (go back to A)

  • mikhomikho AdministratorOG

    @AnthonySmith said: Just my personal opinion and I could be wrong, but when the split happened, maybe @mikho remembers this as we talked about it a lot at the time, we kind of agreed that if LES was not a pretty close match and "comfortable" people would not switch and I always thought that was why the other 2 splits that happened before LES, one of which I cant even remember the name of now did not get the same traction LES did, but maybe its been long enough now a different platform can work.

    The talk back then was to keep it "the same" as OGF, except for the drama and the occasional slinging of feces.
    We wanted the users to feel comfortable and recognize the surroundings, making the move over here easier for everyone.

    We compared to the old LES forum, when it was "only" a support-forum for the $3/year OpenVZ VPS that was offered.
    But Vanilla was selected for the above-mentioned reasons.

    In the early days, when @AnthonySmith handed the Admin position over, I tried to set up some gamification on a LES-clone that I hosted locally. But that project never really took off and was never implemented live.
    Somehow, I like the idea behind gamification; you add value and get rewarded for it.

    “Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg

  • @sumo said:

    These are some high level points:

    • Ads, donations, sponsorships, and/or digital sales are probably needed if one of the goals is to be as self-sustaining as possible. I feel for a small team operation for a primarily community service, Revenue - Costs <= $500, or therabouts

    • LES should find its niche. Something not easy to find and a community could certainly help with is to categorized low end providers that can be used for alpha, beta, and production workloads suitable for startups / small business / hobby

    • In addition to short term projects, I'd also like to see some members run long term projects (ideally on lowend providers) and share how its done for others to learn - tierhive is a great example of that. Another one - how to create a global ping service

    • On public forums, there tends to be waves of animosity. It happens, but having realistic reviews would help with some of that and realistic expectations for providers

    • Deals won't be exclusive on a public forum for long. Maybe one option is to offer it to active members for X days before releasing it publicly. It will take coordination from the providers as well

    • Switching out of Vanilla would be a good idea. But, all the forum software options are love/hate

    • In the end, I believe this could be a very useful place to learn and build business connections and that's valuable for certain service providers (go back to A)

    Typos, this should be: Costs - Revenue <= $500, or thereabouts

  • edited May 7

    my idea is to have a LES live teams meeting with webcame.

    and those show up get a special tag.

    i want to see the faces.

    nude is also allowed

  • WSSWSS OG

    Just a matter of time before @Nekki shows up and pulls out his wang.

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  • Welcome back to the helm @AnthonySmith

    Good ideas and wish you all the best!

    Just out of curiosity - What's the majority of the costs at present?

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith AdministratorHosting ProviderOGSenpai

    @caracal said: Just out of curiosity - What's the majority of the costs at present?

    runcloud it seems. I might reach out to them and see if they want to sponsor it, its industry specific, maybe they will, if not I will just do the work to drop it.

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith AdministratorHosting ProviderOGSenpai

    @WSS said:
    Just a matter of time before @Nekki shows up and pulls out his wang.

    it would be rude if he didn't at this stage.

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  • @WSS said:
    Just a matter of time before @Nekki shows up and pulls out his wang.

    i read it as wig

  • FalzoFalzo Senpai

    Lots of good ideas! My two cents:

    1) too many things at once. You will burn out quick and get nothing done properly. Also you'll get buried in discussions about each topic quickly. Started here already...

    Rather sort and prioririze.

    A platform change can be the base for everything else of course, I'd still recommend to put it in a timeline to not get overwhelmed.

    2) money. I can live with ads, thats what blockers are for. But blinking shit might push off guests and keep the community from growing.

    Rather cut down costs hard core first. This is just a small forum. It should easily run off a small vserver for a single digit amount per month.
    While efforts to make it highly available are of course apreciated, I'd consider this totally overengineering.

    So yes, drop runcloud and whatever else makes it expensive. For the rest it probably will be much easier to find some sponsor that won't want something big in return.

    As said just my 2 cents ;-)

    Last short reminder: you can't please anyone. Plan with churn from the beginning to not get disappointed.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith AdministratorHosting ProviderOGSenpai

    @Falzo said:
    Lots of good ideas! My two cents:

    1) too many things at once. You will burn out quick and get nothing done properly. Also you'll get buried in discussions about each topic quickly. Started here already...

    Rather sort and prioririze.

    A platform change can be the base for everything else of course, I'd still recommend to put it in a timeline to not get overwhelmed.

    2) money. I can live with ads, thats what blockers are for. But blinking shit might push off guests and keep the community from growing.

    Rather cut down costs hard core first. This is just a small forum. It should easily run off a small vserver for a single digit amount per month.
    While efforts to make it highly available are of course apreciated, I'd consider this totally overengineering.

    So yes, drop runcloud and whatever else makes it expensive. For the rest it probably will be much easier to find some sponsor that won't want something big in return.

    As said just my 2 cents ;-)

    Last short reminder: you can't please anyone. Plan with churn from the beginning to not get disappointed.

    Thanks for the input, appreciated!

    I probably should have made it more clear, I will be lucky to get most of this done by the end of the year, I wont be rushing it and I obviously have other priorities.

    But what I can do quickly, I will, what the current platform supports or only needs a few tweaks to do I will do, this is more about me checking community interest and feel, if I feel i have a remit to do most of this, and to be honest, from the feedback so far, I do, I won't be asking much more after this.

    I really just wanted to be sure that my jumping in with both feet is not going to be a final nail. I am really happy with the response so far.

    If RunCloud wants a small advert spot, I will keep it, if not, its going to vanish :D

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  • WSSWSS OG

    @AnthonySmith said: If RunCloud wants a small advert spot, I will keep it, if not, its going to vanish

    Are you seriously paying for a glorified webpanel for this site? Seems kind of against the entire LES creed.

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith AdministratorHosting ProviderOGSenpai

    @WSS said:

    @AnthonySmith said: If RunCloud wants a small advert spot, I will keep it, if not, its going to vanish

    Are you seriously paying for a glorified webpanel for this site? Seems kind of against the entire LES creed.

    It was a free product when that decision was made 8 years ago, I guess it was just convenient while the price crept up.

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  • WSSWSS OG

    @AnthonySmith said:
    It was a free product when that decision was made 8 years ago, I guess it was just convenient while the price crept up.

    Shouldn't take too much time to surgically remove it. Heck, this might be a good time to work on migrating the existing site to get rid of that ancient cruft that holds it all together.

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith AdministratorHosting ProviderOGSenpai

    @WSS said:

    @AnthonySmith said:
    It was a free product when that decision was made 8 years ago, I guess it was just convenient while the price crept up.

    Shouldn't take too much time to surgically remove it. Heck, this might be a good time to work on migrating the existing site to get rid of that ancient cruft that holds it all together.

    Yeah, I hope that turns out to be the case, gonna be a fun update post either way

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  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee ModeratorHosting ProviderOGServices Provider

    Just to add, I would definitely donate a few quid a month towards LES. Specially if it removed or reduced the amount of ads needed to support the platform.

  • mikhomikho AdministratorOG

    Bring back donorbox !

    “Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg

  • MikeAMikeA Hosting ProviderOG

    Can I ask why it's so expensive to run it? Nearing a 4--figure yearly bill is crazy to me for something like LES forum. I feel like this could run on a $300-400/y server.

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith AdministratorHosting ProviderOGSenpai

    @MikeA said:
    Can I ask why it's so expensive to run it? Nearing a 4--figure yearly bill is crazy to me for something like LES forum. I feel like this could run on a $300-400/y server.

    Runcloud, a handful of VPS, SES something else I can't remember because I am watching Tim Burchertte on JRE and falling asleep while counting dad gums.

    It doesn't have to cost that I think it's just convenient but I will have a look

    Edit mid post.... I just decided to reread the messages on discord, I have to apologise profusely for some reason I had it in my head runcloud was costing $600 /year... It's $160, so total cost is closer to $450 with mail and domain etc.

    Little more comfortable but still more than it needs to be.

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  • @AnthonySmith said:

    @MikeA said:
    Can I ask why it's so expensive to run it? Nearing a 4--figure yearly bill is crazy to me for something like LES forum. I feel like this could run on a $300-400/y server.

    Runcloud, a handful of VPS, SES something else I can't remember because I am watching Tim Burchertte on JRE and falling asleep while counting dad gums.

    It doesn't have to cost that I think it's just convenient but I will have a look

    Edit mid post.... I just decided to reread the messages on discord, I have to apologise profusely for some reason I had it in my head runcloud was costing $600 /year... It's $160, so total cost is closer to $450 with mail and domain etc.

    Little more comfortable but still more than it needs to be.

    After getting rid of Runcloud, donations could probably cover the remaining yearly cost without resorting to ads. I'm not against ads, but it feels nicer without them. Or the costs could be reduced even further with a few provider sponsorships.

  • I have no strong opinion on a few ads, donorbox or such. Unless the ads scares people away from registering by being flashy, it shouldn't matter.
    As for forum software, it's not important for me (I don't like or dislike Vanilla more than Discourse, and I haven't tried many other options laletely, I just remember those that didn't scale on mobile), but I do miss the ability to mute/ignore threads and users ... B)

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOGContent Writer

    @MichaelCee said:
    Just to add, I would definitely donate a few quid a month towards LES. Specially if it removed or reduced the amount of ads needed to support the platform.

    Automated ads are still a lot more stable than support payments.
    Also, in a way, it is corporations and companies paying for it - as opposed to taking money from users.

    Lowest in-page ad density setting for AdSense, without any additional overlay or sticky ad formats, is not too bad even without an ad blocker - while setting the no-ads for logged in users could be a plus.

    Here is a screenshots of settings and how it looks like in practice, with a guest user and no ad blocks used:

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