@davide said: I have the API ready and responding to calls now and the plugin seasoned and almost canned, as I left it the day you left me. No iframe, screw the iframe.
I will have a look when I am ready to start reformatting the right hand bar, I am just a bit concerned with how hard it is to get listed, so it may not be the broadest spectrum of offers available. Nothing personal, just an observation.
Also, given that some of them are commission-based,it might not go down well, but I am willing to have a look.
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@Not_Oles said: @AnthonySmith If I understand right, Google AdSense payments to Brisitsh website owners come from Ireland, and therefore are not subject to British VAT because they are "outside the scope."
At £0.09 per day, it will take a while to find out, I had to register with the IRS and complete a W8 form and tax treaty documentation so probably not Ireland, but regardless the VAT is only an issue for donations not for AdSense, and generally, that's not how VAT works.
I would also again like to point out that I am not here to maintain the status quo; the forum numbers are not good, and the forum will change. On the existing system, there have been no funds to progress anything to the point that everything it runs on is EOL. There is more to it than just keeping the lights on. It's really shit of me to have to say that, I hope it is taken in the good spirit intended. It was a choice, I respect it, it is just not how I will be doing it.
So for the final time, I am not accepting donations. if you provide ANY perk in return for a donation it is a sale, Your initial outburst confirmed why donations are a bad idea, even if it was something I would have considered. My position when LES was started was that it needed to stand on its own feet financially. It had adverts from day 1.
While suggestions are welcome, we had a whole thread allocated to them, its easy to stand and criticise from the sidelines after the fact when it's not you doing the heavy lifting.
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There would be no commissions at all for the LES integration, only plain links from the SERP to the services. But definitely the dataset would be a complement to the LES' approved set, since integrating every provider from LES would indeed be quite expensive to the point of being unaffordable. I think the API route might be preferable so you would have total control over both style and data, in case you want a final stage filter or custom sorting. It wouldn't be a problem to return a few thousand results per query even, to allow for better post processing on your backend. But however, the API is ready right now and would love some tickle.
Just adding that, aside from still being a student, one of the reasons I withdrew from the nomination of becoming the new owner of LES (I was pitched in a pool of candidates with the legendary M&M), were legal and financial obligations that came with it. As a student, I wouldn't be able to chip in much to keep the ship afloat, if I wanted to keep the ship afloat and free for everyone. However, if you're German, dealing with legal obligations quickly becomes the biggest pita. Tax, GDPR, dealing with possible takedown notices for weird shit that's being posted etc. I mean, I was coming from a Webdesign background (worked about 7 years as a freelancer), however, one of the reasons I quit was that at some point I felt more like a lawyer for internet&media law than a Webdesigner. It was no fun anymore, with everchanging obligations and laws. Legal counsel also costs money, so there's that. So, what I'm saying is that I can understand that accepting donations 20 years ago may have been a lot easier than it is today. Hell, I had donations running for my Minecraft server as a kid lol.
Maybe we can shift ownership to a digital citizen of the Free Republic of Verdis /jk
But actually do read up on it. The Verdis thing is a good read and was on the News for a while
@Ympker: I have read ToS and policies for each of the 110 providers I imported into VPS Price Tracker, everybody drafts with language models and manually revises the slop opera, with the exception of the largest companies that break from the canned text template and write their own rules in their own format. With the anecdotal dim sharpness of Italian accountants, the broad knowledge of language models was sufficiently reassuring for me to write the legal documents for VPS Price Tracker.
@mwt said:
I'm fine with ads. I don't see a lot of pushback on the ads either. So, I'm confused. There must be some context I'm missing.
I am going to bring them back, they will still be optional, there will be no supporter tag, I realised afterwards that the tag brings ego into it, if you want to support it with ads on, you will be able too, if not no problem, if anyone then complains about ads that they voluntarily turned on, I have to assume mental health issues and just turn off ads for those users at an admin level.
Currently adverts only show for none logged in viewers.
It's hard to say right now as apparently it can take a month or so for Google to optimise for your site/data but it looks like around £6 per month based on current none logged in traffic only.
I can probably make that work but obviously have to scrap a bunch of plans.
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@mwt said:
I'm fine with ads. I don't see a lot of pushback on the ads either. So, I'm confused. There must be some context I'm missing.
I am going to bring them back, they will still be optional, there will be no supporter tag, I realised afterwards that the tag brings ego into it, if you want to support it with ads on, you will be able too, if not no problem, if anyone then complains about ads that they voluntarily turned on, I have to assume mental health issues and just turn off ads for those users at an admin level.
Currently adverts only show for none logged in viewers.
It's hard to say right now as apparently it can take a month or so for Google to optimise for your site/data but it looks like around £6 per month based on current none logged in traffic only.
I can probably make that work but obviously have to scrap a bunch of plans.
Give it time for Google Ads.
Also track traffic changes for the first few months of advert introduction - I'm curious.
If plans for LES are contingent on ad revenue, you could also just sell ad space directly to providers. The ads might be more relevant, too. But I imagine you've thought of that.
@Not_Oles said: @AnthonySmith If I understand right, Google AdSense payments to Brisitsh website owners come from Ireland, and therefore are not subject to British VAT because they are "outside the scope."
At £0.09 per day, it will take a while to find out, I had to register with the IRS and complete a W8 form and tax treaty documentation so probably not Ireland, but regardless the VAT is only an issue for donations not for AdSense, and generally, that's not how VAT works.
I confess to being curious about that; my AdSense account is pretty ancient so it may have changed now, but I've never had to deal with any IRS / W8 crap from them. Maybe it's another Brexit Benefit?
@AnthonySmith said: I can probably make that work but obviously have to scrap a bunch of plans.
I am confused why 'scrap' - what is your actual long term goal - I thought it was to make LES grow?
@david3 said:
If plans for LES are contingent on ad revenue, you could also just sell ad space directly to providers. The ads might be more relevant, too. But I imagine you've thought of that.
Yeah, it was all considered. Ultimately, I don't believe LES can grow without a budget, if people don't believe this and have practical and considered ideas, I am honestly all ears.
Like if I want to help FOSSVPS to grow it would be great for LES to sponsor this, pay invoices for it for new services etc, and take karma/activity directly as on-going validation, a TierHive style free VPS platform paid for with karma, I dont have to be the one to run it I will happily just provide the platform or pay for VirtFusion licenses.
Grants for community projects, group buy downs, e.g. LES pays $1000 to @qps if they do a special deal that at least 25 units sell on, maybe it's a LES special upgrade for extra ram or disk etc.
That's just finger in the wind stuff, but basically try things and be prepared for the bad ideas to fail, learn and keep what works.
The reality is that with no budget, LES runs on EOL software is unmaintained with no way forward. It's me putting 40+ hours in and paying out of pocket for help. I know just enough to be dangerous, but have a developer available to fix stuff. I can safely use Claude (also not free) for POC and hand over the functional code to someone with 20 years of experience to validate and audit, they catch some scary stuff, fix it, I retest and my collegue is a qualified pen tester with a lot of experience so we have a good blend of people, right now within reason its fairly cost effective but.... not free.
As @mikho said to me yesterday, baby steps, I am maybe trying to do to much at once, so I will get the stable, up to date platform live first LES v2 so to speak and then review, if there is really no interest in any change beyond that, no problem, it becomes set and forget effectivley or someone else takes over, I doont want to hold this place up.
LES will not turn in to LET, it needs to be something else.
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@Not_Oles said: @AnthonySmith If I understand right, Google AdSense payments to Brisitsh website owners come from Ireland, and therefore are not subject to British VAT because they are "outside the scope."
At £0.09 per day, it will take a while to find out, I had to register with the IRS and complete a W8 form and tax treaty documentation so probably not Ireland, but regardless the VAT is only an issue for donations not for AdSense, and generally, that's not how VAT works.
I confess to being curious about that; my AdSense account is pretty ancient so it may have changed now, but I've never had to deal with any IRS / W8 crap from them. Maybe it's another Brexit Benefit?
Same, I don't recall having to do it on my old personal one, I would have had to reactivate that one but I decided to use a new one for this specifically to keep things separate, probably a US/UK double tax treaty thing
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@AnthonySmith said: The reality is that with no budget, LES runs on EOL software is unmaintained with no way forward. It's me putting 40+ hours in and paying out of pocket for help.
Yeah. About that. Why continue to beat your head against the wall with Vanilla? I mean, it's familiar, but we had phpBB before that- and we survived. If we're going out of our way to not be "the other LE board", why are you still lock-step with the software? It's dead.
@AnthonySmith said: The reality is that with no budget, LES runs on EOL software is unmaintained with no way forward. It's me putting 40+ hours in and paying out of pocket for help.
Yeah. About that. Why continue to beat your head against the wall with Vanilla? I mean, it's familiar, but we had phpBB before that- and we survived. If we're going out of our way to not be "the other LE board", why are you still lock-step with the software? It's dead.
That feels more like a 100+ hours extra to be honest, maybe I am overestimating it.
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@AnthonySmith said: The reality is that with no budget, LES runs on EOL software is unmaintained with no way forward. It's me putting 40+ hours in and paying out of pocket for help.
Yeah. About that. Why continue to beat your head against the wall with Vanilla? I mean, it's familiar, but we had phpBB before that- and we survived. If we're going out of our way to not be "the other LE board", why are you still lock-step with the software? It's dead.
That feels more like a 100+ hours extra to be honest, maybe I am overestimating it.
Post and user migration would be hell. Better to start over anew or keep looking for migration options. Maybe once AI gets more advanced, ask it to create the dB migration script from vanilla to some newer gen board?
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@AnthonySmith said:
As @mikho said to me yesterday, baby steps, I am maybe trying to do to much at once, so I will get the stable, up to date platform live first LES v2 so to speak and then review, if there is really no interest in any change beyond that, no problem, it becomes set and forget effectivley or someone else takes over, I doont want to hold this place up.
LES will not turn in to LET, it needs to be something else.
As I have been a part of this community for many years, I’ve lernt the hard way that every decision take will be questioned.
Every question asked is done with the forums best interest in mind, thats the good part.
But it gets tiresome to reply and defend the decision made every time.
Eventually we end up in a status quo situation because no one has the mental strenght to handle the aftermath of a decision.
@AnthonySmith you know I’m always here for you. Talk, discuss, give my view on both the forum and other things.
My company (which has no interest in selling stuff on this forum) would be happy to take some of the invoices for running and developing this forum. No questions asked, nothing in return.
My interest is to keep the community alive and invest in the interest for self-hosting, low resource usage solutions.
I haven’t spent much time here lately as I’ve spent 5 years building my company to a solid foundation that I can live of.
I’m willing to put some more effort into this, not sure how much I can help with coding or optimising. I have ideas, a good talking partner and money.
@AnthonySmith - you are of course correct in needing money to grow. I remember being told that generally a techie is always trying to rebuild something e.g. improve / optimise a script etc. It is afterall how we really learn. I was also told something really profound (to me)......
If you are surrounded by shit in all directions which way should you go?
Techies often get stuck on the question.
It does not matter which direction you go as long as you go, otherwise you will always remain in the shit !!!
So you have a goal (excellent). To get to that goal just take little steps, if something on the way screws up then it is just a small step back. Techies try to plan the whole path and often can't find the solution. It does not matter the direction, if it is wrong you have lost very little
BTW I am a techie nerd although I once gave a big presentation and instead of saying that, I introduced myself as a necky turd but I have learnt a few things along the way.
@AnthonySmith said: The reality is that with no budget, LES runs on EOL software is unmaintained with no way forward. It's me putting 40+ hours in and paying out of pocket for help.
Yeah. About that. Why continue to beat your head against the wall with Vanilla? I mean, it's familiar, but we had phpBB before that- and we survived. If we're going out of our way to not be "the other LE board", why are you still lock-step with the software? It's dead.
That feels more like a 100+ hours extra to be honest, maybe I am overestimating it.
Post and user migration would be hell. Better to start over anew or keep looking for migration options. Maybe once AI gets more advanced, ask it to create the dB migration script from vanilla to some newer gen board?
Make them sign up again. It's not that difficult, and will get rid of the shitposters who don't have a reason to do anything but their drive-by service posting.
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@Ympker said:
... However, if you're German, dealing with legal obligations quickly becomes the biggest pita. Tax, GDPR, dealing with possible takedown notices for weird shit that's being posted etc. I mean, I was coming from a Webdesign background (worked about 7 years as a freelancer), however, one of the reasons I quit was that at some point I felt more like a lawyer for internet&media law than a Webdesigner. It was no fun anymore, with everchanging obligations and laws. Legal counsel also costs money, so there's that. So, what I'm saying is that I can understand that accepting donations 20 years ago may have been a lot easier than it is today. Hell, I had donations running for my Minecraft server as a kid lol.
I totally get where you’re coming from. Running a website or a web project just isn't fun anymore. I have around 200 projects and get about two cease-and-desist letters a month. Most of them are baseless or just straight-up scams. If you’re even a single day late with filing your company results, the government hits you with a penalty and a bailiff will seize your assets immediately. But when you’re the one waiting to get money from the state, it takes years.
So, I’ve been thinking about how to level up the ad setup. Tons of sites - especially the ones with paywalls - show ads as an alternative. The forum gutefrage.net uses the exact same model, and it works like a charm there. I honestly think this could be a great way to secure solid funding for the long run. I actually worked in this field for a bit, and "most users" don't mind it. In fact, they’re usually more likely to grab a paid subscription if they really want an ad-free experience. I’ve put together a quick mockup of how this could look.
This would also fix the donation issue and create a monthly fee that's way easier to handle.
There is no way to make everyone happy.
Yes, adverts suck.
But sites also cost.
Many people won't or even can't pay anything, while still not liking the ads (perfectly legit stance).
On the other hand, auto-ads from the likes of Google or Mediavine are the cleanest way to cover the costs: you are not making a deal with any service/product company, nor asking any users/visitors for money - so you remain as free and independent as possible.
Similar goes for affiliate links to products you discuss (even criticize) - that's not the same as paid/sponsored reviews.
A different (and more problematic thing) is people hating the site owner for using the ads (or affiliate links for that matter). In my experience (over the past decade with my sites and Youtube channels), if you aren't using a paywall, you can freely just ignore 'em - life's better that way. Not sure about using a paywall though - some people simply can't pay.
@AnthonySmith said: The reality is that with no budget, LES runs on EOL software is unmaintained with no way forward. It's me putting 40+ hours in and paying out of pocket for help.
Yeah. About that. Why continue to beat your head against the wall with Vanilla? I mean, it's familiar, but we had phpBB before that- and we survived. If we're going out of our way to not be "the other LE board", why are you still lock-step with the software? It's dead.
That feels more like a 100+ hours extra to be honest, maybe I am overestimating it.
No idea about how good MyBB is, but it's open source and has a Vanilla merger you could try on a mockup: https://docs.mybb.com/1.8/merge/
I think starting completely fresh, like @somik suggested, is gonna suck with all prior posts and history gone. So in that case, maybe sticking to vanilla is better. Or maybe here knows how to import Vanilla to another more modern forum software and can help you out?
@Ympker said:
... However, if you're German, dealing with legal obligations quickly becomes the biggest pita. Tax, GDPR, dealing with possible takedown notices for weird shit that's being posted etc. I mean, I was coming from a Webdesign background (worked about 7 years as a freelancer), however, one of the reasons I quit was that at some point I felt more like a lawyer for internet&media law than a Webdesigner. It was no fun anymore, with everchanging obligations and laws. Legal counsel also costs money, so there's that. So, what I'm saying is that I can understand that accepting donations 20 years ago may have been a lot easier than it is today. Hell, I had donations running for my Minecraft server as a kid lol.
I totally get where you’re coming from. Running a website or a web project just isn't fun anymore. I have around 200 projects and get about two cease-and-desist letters a month. Most of them are baseless or just straight-up scams. If you’re even a single day late with filing your company results, the government hits you with a penalty and a bailiff will seize your assets immediately. But when you’re the one waiting to get money from the state, it takes years.
Amen to that. When I started out, it was so much fun. I started learning coding and website building for all types of reasons and ambition, and really enjoyed it. Then the GDPR and other regulations (tax, etc) attacked. While Iubenda has been very helpful in being compliant, there's still too much hassle to deal with this being a student. Maybe at some point later again.
@AGXL said:
So, I’ve been thinking about how to level up the ad setup. Tons of sites - especially the ones with paywalls - show ads as an alternative. The forum gutefrage.net uses the exact same model, and it works like a charm there. I honestly think this could be a great way to secure solid funding for the long run. I actually worked in this field for a bit, and "most users" don't mind it. In fact, they’re usually more likely to grab a paid subscription if they really want an ad-free experience. I’ve put together a quick mockup of how this could look.
This would also fix the donation issue and create a monthly fee that's way easier to handle.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Right now to be honest, I am just focusing on getting the software up to date and stable so v2 can go live, then I will see if adsense is covering it or not.
I just really hate the idea of charging anyone to be here, I know its voluntary etc, I just need to get my head around it.
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@david3 said:
If plans for LES are contingent on ad revenue, you could also just sell ad space directly to providers. The ads might be more relevant, too. But I imagine you've thought of that.
This seems like the best approach, you would get ads tailored to the community and make way more than just adsense style revenue.
Over a decade ago I used to advertise on gametracker before battlemetrics took over for game server browsing, and there was always a sense of pride in "I actively use this service and like it, and now my logo is on it for others to see."
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@david3 said:
If plans for LES are contingent on ad revenue, you could also just sell ad space directly to providers. The ads might be more relevant, too. But I imagine you've thought of that.
This seems like the best approach, you would get ads tailored to the community and make way more than just adsense style revenue.
Over a decade ago I used to advertise on gametracker before battlemetrics took over for game server browsing, and there was always a sense of pride in "I actively use this service and like it, and now my logo is on it for others to see."
Yeah, it's an option, and it's what used to be done here when it started, it worked, the real issue now is the lack of engagement from hosts on LES, so I guess it's a case of building the numbers up again, it's not 0, don't get me wrong, but I like to make a good offer deal I deeply disagree with the prices and volume of ads at LET, for example.
one of the updates I am doing is automating the hosting provider list, it is also going to auto-srip non-active hosts for example, those that have not logged in for 180 days will lose their tag. They can get it back, obviously, but I would like to know the real numbers before making decisions.
Then maybe we will have some tasteful ad slots for $7 or something I will message all hosts once the plugin is in to let them know of the changes and let them decide if they care and want to come back.
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I agree with the ad slots for hosting providers, it makes a lot more sense and integrates much better with the website than Google Adsense, and you'd probably get a much bigger payout. Adsense imo could detract people from the website because it doesn't really look great/visually appealing.
MC-Market/BuiltByBit had a system where hosting providers could bid for a limited number of slots each week, which I thought was a clever solution. We'd be more than happy to pay for ad slots on LES, and I'd bank that a few other hosts would be willing as well.
@Advin said:
I agree with the ad slots for hosting providers, it makes a lot more sense and integrates much better with the website than Google Adsense, and you'd probably get a much bigger payout. Adsense imo could detract people from the website because it doesn't really look great/visually appealing.
MC-Market/BuiltByBit had a system where hosting providers could bid for a limited number of slots each week, which I thought was a clever solution. We'd be more than happy to pay for ad slots on LES, and I'd bank that a few other hosts would be willing as well.
Dealing with ads, as a janitor, takes time and effort.
Making a deal, confirming payment, designing or even "just" placing a designed advert.
Removing once paid time has passed - and checking when that is.
Sounds like not much but it can add up.
Automated ads just work, it's a set-and-forget thing.
Also, you are not directly paid by any hosting company in particular, so a cleaner situation in those terms.
Either way, every option has its pros and cons: donations only (no ads), custom ads and automated ads.
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I will have a look when I am ready to start reformatting the right hand bar, I am just a bit concerned with how hard it is to get listed, so it may not be the broadest spectrum of offers available. Nothing personal, just an observation.
Also, given that some of them are commission-based,it might not go down well, but I am willing to have a look.
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At £0.09 per day, it will take a while to find out, I had to register with the IRS and complete a W8 form and tax treaty documentation so probably not Ireland, but regardless the VAT is only an issue for donations not for AdSense, and generally, that's not how VAT works.
I would also again like to point out that I am not here to maintain the status quo; the forum numbers are not good, and the forum will change. On the existing system, there have been no funds to progress anything to the point that everything it runs on is EOL. There is more to it than just keeping the lights on. It's really shit of me to have to say that, I hope it is taken in the good spirit intended. It was a choice, I respect it, it is just not how I will be doing it.
So for the final time, I am not accepting donations. if you provide ANY perk in return for a donation it is a sale, Your initial outburst confirmed why donations are a bad idea, even if it was something I would have considered. My position when LES was started was that it needed to stand on its own feet financially. It had adverts from day 1.
While suggestions are welcome, we had a whole thread allocated to them, its easy to stand and criticise from the sidelines after the fact when it's not you doing the heavy lifting.
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There would be no commissions at all for the LES integration, only plain links from the SERP to the services. But definitely the dataset would be a complement to the LES' approved set, since integrating every provider from LES would indeed be quite expensive to the point of being unaffordable. I think the API route might be preferable so you would have total control over both style and data, in case you want a final stage filter or custom sorting. It wouldn't be a problem to return a few thousand results per query even, to allow for better post processing on your backend. But however, the API is ready right now and would love some tickle.
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Just adding that, aside from still being a student, one of the reasons I withdrew from the nomination of becoming the new owner of LES (I was pitched in a pool of candidates with the legendary M&M), were legal and financial obligations that came with it. As a student, I wouldn't be able to chip in much to keep the ship afloat, if I wanted to keep the ship afloat and free for everyone. However, if you're German, dealing with legal obligations quickly becomes the biggest pita. Tax, GDPR, dealing with possible takedown notices for weird shit that's being posted etc. I mean, I was coming from a Webdesign background (worked about 7 years as a freelancer), however, one of the reasons I quit was that at some point I felt more like a lawyer for internet&media law than a Webdesigner. It was no fun anymore, with everchanging obligations and laws. Legal counsel also costs money, so there's that. So, what I'm saying is that I can understand that accepting donations 20 years ago may have been a lot easier than it is today. Hell, I had donations running for my Minecraft server as a kid lol.
Maybe we can shift ownership to a digital citizen of the Free Republic of Verdis /jk
But actually do read up on it. The Verdis thing is a good read and was on the News for a while
https://verdisgov.org/
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I'm fine with ads. I don't see a lot of pushback on the ads either. So, I'm confused. There must be some context I'm missing.
I am going to bring them back, they will still be optional, there will be no supporter tag, I realised afterwards that the tag brings ego into it, if you want to support it with ads on, you will be able too, if not no problem, if anyone then complains about ads that they voluntarily turned on, I have to assume mental health issues and just turn off ads for those users at an admin level.
Currently adverts only show for none logged in viewers.
It's hard to say right now as apparently it can take a month or so for Google to optimise for your site/data but it looks like around £6 per month based on current none logged in traffic only.
I can probably make that work but obviously have to scrap a bunch of plans.
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Give it time for Google Ads.
Also track traffic changes for the first few months of advert introduction - I'm curious.
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I am confused why 'scrap' - what is your actual long term goal - I thought it was to make LES grow?
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If plans for LES are contingent on ad revenue, you could also just sell ad space directly to providers. The ads might be more relevant, too. But I imagine you've thought of that.
I confess to being curious about that; my AdSense account is pretty ancient so it may have changed now, but I've never had to deal with any IRS / W8 crap from them. Maybe it's another Brexit Benefit?
Yeah, it was all considered. Ultimately, I don't believe LES can grow without a budget, if people don't believe this and have practical and considered ideas, I am honestly all ears.
Like if I want to help FOSSVPS to grow it would be great for LES to sponsor this, pay invoices for it for new services etc, and take karma/activity directly as on-going validation, a TierHive style free VPS platform paid for with karma, I dont have to be the one to run it I will happily just provide the platform or pay for VirtFusion licenses.
Grants for community projects, group buy downs, e.g. LES pays $1000 to @qps if they do a special deal that at least 25 units sell on, maybe it's a LES special upgrade for extra ram or disk etc.
That's just finger in the wind stuff, but basically try things and be prepared for the bad ideas to fail, learn and keep what works.
The reality is that with no budget, LES runs on EOL software is unmaintained with no way forward. It's me putting 40+ hours in and paying out of pocket for help. I know just enough to be dangerous, but have a developer available to fix stuff. I can safely use Claude (also not free) for POC and hand over the functional code to someone with 20 years of experience to validate and audit, they catch some scary stuff, fix it, I retest and my collegue is a qualified pen tester with a lot of experience so we have a good blend of people, right now within reason its fairly cost effective but.... not free.
As @mikho said to me yesterday, baby steps, I am maybe trying to do to much at once, so I will get the stable, up to date platform live first LES v2 so to speak and then review, if there is really no interest in any change beyond that, no problem, it becomes set and forget effectivley or someone else takes over, I doont want to hold this place up.
LES will not turn in to LET, it needs to be something else.
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Same, I don't recall having to do it on my old personal one, I would have had to reactivate that one but I decided to use a new one for this specifically to keep things separate, probably a US/UK double tax treaty thing
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Yeah. About that. Why continue to beat your head against the wall with Vanilla? I mean, it's familiar, but we had phpBB before that- and we survived. If we're going out of our way to not be "the other LE board", why are you still lock-step with the software? It's dead.
"It's a hard life- to be a stick insect." - Karl Pilkington
That feels more like a 100+ hours extra to be honest, maybe I am overestimating it.
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Post and user migration would be hell. Better to start over anew or keep looking for migration options. Maybe once AI gets more advanced, ask it to create the dB migration script from vanilla to some newer gen board?
As I have been a part of this community for many years, I’ve lernt the hard way that every decision take will be questioned.
Every question asked is done with the forums best interest in mind, thats the good part.
But it gets tiresome to reply and defend the decision made every time.
Eventually we end up in a status quo situation because no one has the mental strenght to handle the aftermath of a decision.
@AnthonySmith you know I’m always here for you. Talk, discuss, give my view on both the forum and other things.
My company (which has no interest in selling stuff on this forum) would be happy to take some of the invoices for running and developing this forum. No questions asked, nothing in return.
My interest is to keep the community alive and invest in the interest for self-hosting, low resource usage solutions.
I haven’t spent much time here lately as I’ve spent 5 years building my company to a solid foundation that I can live of.
I’m willing to put some more effort into this, not sure how much I can help with coding or optimising. I have ideas, a good talking partner and money.
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
@AnthonySmith - you are of course correct in needing money to grow. I remember being told that generally a techie is always trying to rebuild something e.g. improve / optimise a script etc. It is afterall how we really learn. I was also told something really profound (to me)......
If you are surrounded by shit in all directions which way should you go?
Techies often get stuck on the question.
It does not matter which direction you go as long as you go, otherwise you will always remain in the shit !!!
So you have a goal (excellent). To get to that goal just take little steps, if something on the way screws up then it is just a small step back. Techies try to plan the whole path and often can't find the solution. It does not matter the direction, if it is wrong you have lost very little
BTW I am a techie nerd although I once gave a big presentation and instead of saying that, I introduced myself as a necky turd
but I have learnt a few things along the way.
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Make them sign up again. It's not that difficult, and will get rid of the shitposters who don't have a reason to do anything but their drive-by service posting.
"It's a hard life- to be a stick insect." - Karl Pilkington
I totally get where you’re coming from. Running a website or a web project just isn't fun anymore. I have around 200 projects and get about two cease-and-desist letters a month. Most of them are baseless or just straight-up scams. If you’re even a single day late with filing your company results, the government hits you with a penalty and a bailiff will seize your assets immediately. But when you’re the one waiting to get money from the state, it takes years.
So, I’ve been thinking about how to level up the ad setup. Tons of sites - especially the ones with paywalls - show ads as an alternative. The forum gutefrage.net uses the exact same model, and it works like a charm there. I honestly think this could be a great way to secure solid funding for the long run. I actually worked in this field for a bit, and "most users" don't mind it. In fact, they’re usually more likely to grab a paid subscription if they really want an ad-free experience. I’ve put together a quick mockup of how this could look.
This would also fix the donation issue and create a monthly fee that's way easier to handle.
There is no way to make everyone happy.
Yes, adverts suck.
But sites also cost.
Many people won't or even can't pay anything, while still not liking the ads (perfectly legit stance).
On the other hand, auto-ads from the likes of Google or Mediavine are the cleanest way to cover the costs: you are not making a deal with any service/product company, nor asking any users/visitors for money - so you remain as free and independent as possible.
Similar goes for affiliate links to products you discuss (even criticize) - that's not the same as paid/sponsored reviews.
A different (and more problematic thing) is people hating the site owner for using the ads (or affiliate links for that matter). In my experience (over the past decade with my sites and Youtube channels), if you aren't using a paywall, you can freely just ignore 'em - life's better that way. Not sure about using a paywall though - some people simply can't pay.
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No idea about how good MyBB is, but it's open source and has a Vanilla merger you could try on a mockup: https://docs.mybb.com/1.8/merge/
I think starting completely fresh, like @somik suggested, is gonna suck with all prior posts and history gone. So in that case, maybe sticking to vanilla is better. Or maybe here knows how to import Vanilla to another more modern forum software and can help you out?
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Amen to that. When I started out, it was so much fun. I started learning coding and website building for all types of reasons and ambition, and really enjoyed it. Then the GDPR and other regulations (tax, etc) attacked. While Iubenda has been very helpful in being compliant, there's still too much hassle to deal with this being a student. Maybe at some point later again.
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Thanks for the suggestion.
Right now to be honest, I am just focusing on getting the software up to date and stable so v2 can go live, then I will see if adsense is covering it or not.
I just really hate the idea of charging anyone to be here, I know its voluntary etc, I just need to get my head around it.
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This seems like the best approach, you would get ads tailored to the community and make way more than just adsense style revenue.
Over a decade ago I used to advertise on gametracker before battlemetrics took over for game server browsing, and there was always a sense of pride in "I actively use this service and like it, and now my logo is on it for others to see."
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Yeah, it's an option, and it's what used to be done here when it started, it worked, the real issue now is the lack of engagement from hosts on LES, so I guess it's a case of building the numbers up again, it's not 0, don't get me wrong, but I like to make a good offer deal
I deeply disagree with the prices and volume of ads at LET, for example.
one of the updates I am doing is automating the hosting provider list, it is also going to auto-srip non-active hosts for example, those that have not logged in for 180 days will lose their tag. They can get it back, obviously, but I would like to know the real numbers before making decisions.
Then maybe we will have some tasteful ad slots for $7 or something
I will message all hosts once the plugin is in to let them know of the changes and let them decide if they care and want to come back.
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+1
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I agree with the ad slots for hosting providers, it makes a lot more sense and integrates much better with the website than Google Adsense, and you'd probably get a much bigger payout. Adsense imo could detract people from the website because it doesn't really look great/visually appealing.
MC-Market/BuiltByBit had a system where hosting providers could bid for a limited number of slots each week, which I thought was a clever solution. We'd be more than happy to pay for ad slots on LES, and I'd bank that a few other hosts would be willing as well.
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Dealing with ads, as a janitor, takes time and effort.
Making a deal, confirming payment, designing or even "just" placing a designed advert.
Removing once paid time has passed - and checking when that is.
Sounds like not much but it can add up.
Automated ads just work, it's a set-and-forget thing.
Also, you are not directly paid by any hosting company in particular, so a cleaner situation in those terms.
Either way, every option has its pros and cons: donations only (no ads), custom ads and automated ads.
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