To be honest I have not given it a serious try, but from what I've seen it could very well be the one that gives irssi a run for it's money.
I might be wrong but firsts impression is just that it's bloated with a million features I will never ever use. But as I said, I have not given it a serious try beyond installing it and trying it for a few days, so maybe I should give it another go.
To be honest I have not given it a serious try, but from what I've seen it could very well be the one that gives irssi a run for it's money.
I might be wrong but firsts impression is just that it's bloated with a million features I will never ever use. But as I said, I have not given it a serious try beyond installing it and trying it for a few days, so maybe I should give it another go.
WeeChat is like irssi on steroids, highly recommend.
To be honest I have not given it a serious try, but from what I've seen it could very well be the one that gives irssi a run for it's money.
I might be wrong but firsts impression is just that it's bloated with a million features I will never ever use. But as I said, I have not given it a serious try beyond installing it and trying it for a few days, so maybe I should give it another go.
WeeChat is like irssi on steroids, highly recommend.
@carlin0@treesmokah Thanks for recommending weechat, guys! I took a look at it. It's very configurable and vastly expandable with modules.
For an example of weechat confiuration, maybe anyone who is interested could check the sequence of commands to configure for an 80x25 terminal. . It seems I could use some of those settings for the 89x20 hterm on my Chromebook.
Also, it seemed interesting that weechat recommends not editing the configuration files by hand, that configuration changes take effect immediately, without restarting, and that the configuration is saved at various times, including at /quit.
@Not_Oles said: @Mumbly Yeah, thanks to your enthusiasm for irssi, I also installed irssi. What I found immediately was that the Debian packaged irssi worked out-of-the box for secure connections to Libera, which I haven't yet accomplished with ircII.
Okay, maybe I finally figured out syntax for asking ircII to make a secure connection. The way to do it is described in the ircII manual page, but I didn't get it the first few times through. If I truly am now doing it right, it seems that, in addition to specifying the port, one also needs to preface the name of the server with "SSLIRC/" as in
$ irc Not_Oles SSLIRC/irc.libera.chat 6697
*** Connecting to port 6697 of server irc.libera.chat
Connected to SSL successfully!
[ . . . ]
*** Mode change "+Ziw" for user Not_Oles by Not_Oles
[ . . . ]
* Not_Oles Checks for UTF-8: 🍔
> Looks like UTF-8 is working!
> Using ircii, if I set NOVICE off, I can join a second channel without disconnecting from the
+first channel.
*** Signoff: takotonary ()
> But then, it seems I am talking on the second channel.
*** davlgd (~davlgd@user/davlgd) has joined channel #libera
> How do I talk on the first channel? Do I join the first channel again?
*** krb (~krb@gateway/vpn/pia/krb) has joined channel #libera
<krb:#libera> hi, someone just came and destroyed #philosophy
<krb:#libera> turned it into a redirect channel
<thumbs:#libera> krb: It forwards to ##philosophy
<thumbs:#libera> (which looks like the proper namespace for it)
<krb:#libera> no one of us users of the channel consented to that
<louipc:#libera> it's not a democracy
<krb:#libera> since i'm banned in ##philosophy it doesn't help me either
I've been messing more with ircii. Trying multiple windows, different shell variables, command line flags, and configuration settings, configure with and without -DEBUG, different pre-compile config.h settings, UTF-8 and ISO-8859-1, using ircii with and without tmux, multiple windows, and logging.
I haven't found an active #ircii channel. There are a couple of websites, but no mailing list that I have seen. The most recent source update seems to be 20240111.
There is an extension of ircii called ScrollZ(see also Github repo) I looked briefly at the source code. It seems obvious from the website and from the sources that the guys involved with ScrollZ were having a great time. But, ScrollZ seems quiet for the last three years. Like #ircii, I couldn't find an active #scrollz channel. Even the officially designated EFnet #scrollz channel doesn't seem to exist any more. Again like ircii, no ScrollZ mailing list.
If anybody knows where to find current activity related to ircii and/or ScrollZ, please tell me.
*** krb (~krb@gateway/vpn/pia/krb) has joined channel #libera
<krb:#libera> hi, someone just came and destroyed #philosophy
<krb:#libera> turned it into a redirect channel
<thumbs:#libera> krb: It forwards to ##philosophy
<thumbs:#libera> (which looks like the proper namespace for it)
<krb:#libera> no one of us users of the channel consented to that
<louipc:#libera> it's not a democracy
<krb:#libera> since i'm banned in ##philosophy it doesn't help me either
I've been messing more with ircii. Trying multiple windows, different shell variables, command line flags, and configuration settings, configure with and without -DEBUG, different pre-compile config.h settings, UTF-8 and ISO-8859-1, using ircii with and without tmux, multiple windows, and logging.
I haven't found an active #ircii channel. There are a couple of websites, but no mailing list that I have seen. The most recent source update seems to be 20240111.
There is an extension of ircii called ScrollZ(see also Github repo) I looked briefly at the source code. It seems obvious from the website and from the sources that the guys involved with ScrollZ were having a great time. But, ScrollZ seems quiet for the last three years. Like #ircii, I couldn't find an active #scrollz channel. Even the officially designated EFnet #scrollz channel doesn't seem to exist any more. Again like ircii, no ScrollZ mailing list.
If anybody knows where to find current activity related to ircii and/or ScrollZ, please tell me.
IRC is fun. Please keep in mind the difference between #philosophy and ##philosophy. On Libera channels with one number-sign represent projects, while 2 number-signs represent communities.
Registering a project channel requires quite some bureaucracy, with professional website and all sorts of proof, as admins wish to feel important or something. If they find you having a project channel without validation, they close it or redirect it. This is how Libera works (the irony of libera=freedom).
@root said: IRC is fun. Please keep in mind the difference between #philosophy and ##philosophy. On Libera channels with one number-sign represent projects, while 2 number-signs represent communities.
Channel namespaces
Our policies outline that channels on Libera.Chat fall into one of three categories and two namespaces. Channels that begin with only a single # character are for on-topic project and community channels (e.g. #linux). Channels that begin with two or more # characters are for informal channels (e.g. ##chat).
Registered groups additionally have their own channel namespaces that they control. This includes the “main” channel for that namespace (e.g. #libera) as well as all channels beginning with that name followed by a hyphen (e.g. #libera-dev). A registered group may have control over multiple channel namespaces. To check if a registered channel belongs to a particular group’s channel namespace, you can use the /msg ChanServ INFO command on that channel; if it is, you will receive a line like the following towards the bottom of the output:
The #libera namespace is registered to the libera.chat project
Registering a project channel requires quite some bureaucracy, with professional website and all sorts of proof, as admins wish to feel important or something. If they find you having a project channel without validation, they close it or redirect it. This is how Libera works (the irony of libera=freedom).
< s > How dare they have rules about such things. That is so anti-freedom. < /s >
Registering a project channel requires quite some bureaucracy, with professional website and all sorts of proof, as admins wish to feel important or something. If they find you having a project channel without validation, they close it or redirect it. This is how Libera works (the irony of libera=freedom).
< s > How dare they have rules about such things. That is so anti-freedom. < /s >
Well, it is compared to the good old IRCnet where server operators will directly tell you that channels and nicknames there aren't owned and they won't involve themselves in channel matters. EFnet is somewhat similar.
Both share a unique, decentralized philosophy and continue to shun nickname and channel registration, enforcing a distinct separation between network and channel matters. Since there are no registration services, "ownership" of nicknames and channels is not guaranteed.
Example:
There was an attempt going, mainly driven by Europe, to introduce a common set of rules. In Europe, we'd had such a ruleset for some time already, so we decided we'd try to work on it, and try to find a common set of rules that everyone agreed to.
In Europe, it was basically a definite requirement for the rules that only things disruptive to servers or to the net as a whole warranted operator-invention, while channel trouble was to be left to the channel operators.
That's not a knock on Libera rules. Opers on every IRC network set rules as they see fit, and those of Libera seem reasonable considering the network's orientation. Channel registrations have solved many past issues such as IRC wars, channel takeovers, and so on.
I simply comment from the perspective of a visitor from a much older IRC network.
IRC is fun. Please keep in mind the difference between #philosophy and ##philosophy. On Libera channels with one number-sign represent projects, while 2 number-signs represent communities.
Our policies outline that channels on Libera.Chat fall into one of three categories and two namespaces. Channels that begin with only a single # character are for on-topic project and community channels (e.g. #linux). Channels that begin with two or more # characters are for informal channels (e.g. ##chat).
For MetalVPS I decided to use the IRC servers of the kind folks at Libera for a while. Does my first effort at setting up a channel seem okay? Thanks!
# Registered #metalvps
18: /msg ChanServ INFO #metalvps
-> *ChanServ* INFO #metalvps
-ChanServ- #metalvps is not registered.
19: /join #metalvps
*** Not_Oles (~bashvm@user/Not-Oles/x-9034114) has joined channel #metalvps
*** Mode change "+Cnst" on channel #metalvps by tungsten.libera.chat
*** #metalvps 1712084626
20: /who *
#metalvps Not_Oles H@ ~bashvm@user/Not-Oles/x-9034114 (Tom)
21: /msg ChanServ REGISTER #metalvps
-> *ChanServ* REGISTER #metalvps
-ChanServ- #metalvps is now registered to Not_Oles.
23: /mode #metalvps +r
*** Mode change "+r" on channel #metalvps by Not_Oles
25: /help topic
26: /topic #metalvps MetalVPS.com | VPS and bare metal servers for open source education and fun.
+| Not for business use.
*** Not_Oles has changed the topic on channel #metalvps to MetalVPS.com | VPS and bare metal
+servers for open source education and fun. | Not for business use.
28: /mode #metalvps -s
*** Mode change "-s" on channel #metalvps by Not_Oles
BitchX is essentially a glorified spawn of pre-historical ircII with numerous added scripts, many of which could get you banned from IRC channels if you fail to remove default settings (like public auto-away messages - people really hate those) or without disabling default channel protection scripts as a channel operator could get your friends auto-banned. I don't know what Panasync was thinking ...
Furthermore, I am not sure if this software is still maintained (last release in 2014?), and it might still be susceptible to vulnerabilities, as is common with the crap based on ircII https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2021/03/24/2
Probably I made a mistake, but the reason +r is set on #metalvps is that, according to Libera, "most bots do not log in to accounts." It seemed to me that, at the beginning, it might be better to try keeping the channel more simple by excluding bots and unregistered users.
Libera says, "users connecting to Libera.Chat without accounts will remain uncloaked." Do you want to stay uncloaked?
Are there differences between logging in to Libera and logging in to a green forum?
Could you please help me understand other reasons why people might not want to register their nicks with Libera and log in to their Libera accounts? What am I missing?
It's really not that important, but I can help you understand.
@Not_Oles said: at the beginning, it might be better to try keeping the channel more simple by excluding bots and unregistered users.
At the beginning, you want visitors. Locking the channel is counterproductive in that sense. The best analogy for +r would be a non-public/secret/locked forum where only registered users can see posts.
Channel owners generally want the channel filled with people and set +r as a temporary measure only in cases where there are problematic ban evaders, etc. Exceptions may include some "teamler" channels (i.e., internal forum staff sections) or the need to stay exclusive for some reason.
@Not_Oles said: Libera says, "users connecting to Libera.Chat without accounts will remain uncloaked." Do you want to stay uncloaked?
It makes no difference for casual visitor. People from EFnet and IRCnet survived 30 years of IRCing without cloaking It's nice option to have it, but some people still prefer "vanity vhosts" (that's part of the irc culture) or simply don't bothet with that. Just hopping on IRC every now and then does not require a cloak. Especially if that's not your primary IRC network (Libera is just one of many).
@Not_Oles said: Could you please help me understand other reasons why people might not want to register their nicks with Libera and log in to their Libera accounts? What am I missing?
Thanks for helping me understand!
Yes, of course - it's just IRC. That's completely optional on some IRC networks, and there's no option to do that on the others. It makes sense to register in case you want to "own" a nickname if the network supports it, but apart from that it's just optional.
Just hopping on IRC every now and then does not require a account. Especially if that's not your primary IRC network (Libera is just one of many) - again. That's the beauty of IRC compared to all those newer, modern social platforms that require registration.
When you started researching IRC, how many channels did not let you in because you weren't registered?
That's just reposting as you have same thread on two forums most of us participate
This is not how IRC works. IRC can't be judged through modern platform glasses or compared with forums.
The beauty of IRC is that anyone can join and start chatting. IRC itself does not require user account registrations. The original idea of IRC was that a nickname is just a nickname, not a form of user identification. The original IRC networks still adhere to that philosophy, while others may not. However, IRC networks including Libera do not require user account registrations just some channels do.
While some channels do require registration, it's rare. There are usually one of the two reasons for this. One is due to a tendency to create an exclusive "1337" club, and the other is entirely legitimate, such as preventing too much noise from visitors on high-traffic support channels.
When you said, "It seems okay if there is a low, easily overcome barrier to entry," you're actually creating a limitation, barrier, for the channel, not for the visitors. You see, there are hundreds of IRC networks and thousands of IRC channels. People have choice. But it depends on what you want to achieve with the channel. Do you want to build a nice community or just to keep around half-dozen of idlers?
The primary reason why most people try to join channel as yours is curiosity. It's not for some significant, important reason, just curiosity. But when faced with a message like "Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be logged into your NickServ account," they will simply flee away and forget about it instantly. Because they don't need your channel to exist on IRC. It's other way around - you need a people to call your chatroom a #channel. That's how things work on IRC.
People in general wont invest effort into joining your channel; if anyone it will likely be you investing the effort to invite people on the channel.
If you simply want to keep some potential nuisances out (new, small channels won't experience noteworthy nuisances), there are proper channel modes to achieve that, such as +s (secret) or +p (private).
When a channel is set to +s mode, it means that the channel will not appear in the list of channels when someone uses the "/list" command. Users also won't see +s channels when they use the "/whois" command to retrieve information about a specific user.
The writing above is solely for your understanding of IRC. It's not meant to pressure you into anything. I am also aware that my perspective may differ from the perspective of those who have grown up with the internet and social networks over the last 15 years or so.
If you feel more comfortable with +r mode, then so be it. How channels are managed is solely in the hands of the operator, or to say it differently, "your channel - your rules," and there's no one who can object to that as long as it's within network guidelines.
Comments
To be honest I have not given it a serious try, but from what I've seen it could very well be the one that gives irssi a run for it's money.
I might be wrong but firsts impression is just that it's bloated with a million features I will never ever use. But as I said, I have not given it a serious try beyond installing it and trying it for a few days, so maybe I should give it another go.
I am using https://www.amirc.org/ as client.
I have some really old tutorials on LowEndGuide.
https://lowendguide.com/3/irc/charybdis-complete-irc-daemon/
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
From Charybdis' Github Archived Repository:
It will be fun to take a look at Solanum!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
WeeChat is like irssi on steroids, highly recommend.
@carlin0 @treesmokah Thanks for recommending weechat, guys! I took a look at it. It's very configurable and vastly expandable with modules.
For an example of weechat confiuration, maybe anyone who is interested could check the sequence of commands to configure for an 80x25 terminal. . It seems I could use some of those settings for the 89x20 hterm on my Chromebook.
Also, it seemed interesting that weechat recommends not editing the configuration files by hand, that configuration changes take effect immediately, without restarting, and that the configuration is saved at various times, including at /quit.
Best wishes and thanks again!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
Okay, maybe I finally figured out syntax for asking ircII to make a secure connection. The way to do it is described in the ircII manual page, but I didn't get it the first few times through. If I truly am now doing it right, it seems that, in addition to specifying the port, one also needs to preface the name of the server with "SSLIRC/" as in
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
Nope. Wrong.
Need the ":". 
Like this:
irc Not_Oles SSLIRC/irc.libera.chat:6697I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
Just went by ctrl-c.club and found scrollz.
Also looked at all the Debian packages for weechat.
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
Okay, looks like there is /BIND and /WINDOW.
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
A quick update from IRC
This morning, #philosophy was destroyed!
I've been messing more with ircii. Trying multiple windows, different shell variables, command line flags, and configuration settings, configure with and without -DEBUG, different pre-compile config.h settings, UTF-8 and ISO-8859-1, using ircii with and without tmux, multiple windows, and logging.
I haven't found an active #ircii channel. There are a couple of websites, but no mailing list that I have seen. The most recent source update seems to be 20240111.
There is an extension of ircii called ScrollZ (see also Github repo) I looked briefly at the source code. It seems obvious from the website and from the sources that the guys involved with ScrollZ were having a great time. But, ScrollZ seems quiet for the last three years. Like #ircii, I couldn't find an active #scrollz channel. Even the officially designated EFnet #scrollz channel doesn't seem to exist any more. Again like ircii, no ScrollZ mailing list.
If anybody knows where to find current activity related to ircii and/or ScrollZ, please tell me.
Besides ircii and ScrollZ, I've looked at c9x.me's IRC client, ii from suckless, Susam's nice post about accessing IRC with netcat and with the openssl s_client, irssi, weechat, mcpcpc's clients, and others. As mentioned above, I briefly looked at a few servers. Last but not least, I have the IRC RFC 1459 open and still want to skim though it.
Lots of fun!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
IRC is fun. Please keep in mind the difference between #philosophy and ##philosophy. On Libera channels with one number-sign represent projects, while 2 number-signs represent communities.
Registering a project channel requires quite some bureaucracy, with professional website and all sorts of proof, as admins wish to feel important or something. If they find you having a project channel without validation, they close it or redirect it. This is how Libera works (the irony of libera=freedom).
How are you... online?
Got it! Thanks!
From https://libera.chat/chanreg/
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
A few more bits about ScrollZ in case anyone might be interested:
ScrollZ Debian patches
Pending ScrollZ pull request -- Fixed build for clang16 and lto #30 November 15, 2022
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
< s > How dare they have rules about such things. That is so anti-freedom. < /s >
Well, it is compared to the good old IRCnet where server operators will directly tell you that channels and nicknames there aren't owned and they won't involve themselves in channel matters. EFnet is somewhat similar.
Both share a unique, decentralized philosophy and continue to shun nickname and channel registration, enforcing a distinct separation between network and channel matters. Since there are no registration services, "ownership" of nicknames and channels is not guaranteed.
Example:
That's not a knock on Libera rules. Opers on every IRC network set rules as they see fit, and those of Libera seem reasonable considering the network's orientation. Channel registrations have solved many past issues such as IRC wars, channel takeovers, and so on.
I simply comment from the perspective of a visitor from a much older IRC network.
It's not quite like that... https://libera.chat/chanreg/
"He sounds like hearing him say to the liquor merchant: you who sell it what buys you better ?"
F. De André --- Free NAT KVM
For MetalVPS I decided to use the IRC servers of the kind folks at Libera for a while. Does my first effort at setting up a channel seem okay? Thanks!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
A couple guys have joined #metalvps at Libera! Thanks guys!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
irssi or xbitch? or was it bitchx?
Irssi anytime.
BitchX is essentially a glorified spawn of pre-historical ircII with numerous added scripts, many of which could get you banned from IRC channels if you fail to remove default settings (like public auto-away messages - people really hate those) or without disabling default channel protection scripts as a channel operator could get your friends auto-banned. I don't know what Panasync was thinking ...
Furthermore, I am not sure if this software is still maintained (last release in 2014?), and it might still be susceptible to vulnerabilities, as is common with the crap based on ircII https://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2021/03/24/2
edit.
there https://github.com/BitchX/BitchX1.3/ were some commits 2 - 3 years ago.
Anyway, Irssi or weechat is the way to go.
The thing that made BitchX famous in the late 1990s was that it was the first client to natively support IPV6
"He sounds like hearing him say to the liquor merchant: you who sell it what buys you better ?"
F. De André --- Free NAT KVM
@Mumbly are you in #metalvps ? do not see you
It's still for registered only :P
Since a few days on libera by registering the nickname you automatically have the cloak
https://libera.chat/news/autocloaking
"He sounds like hearing him say to the liquor merchant: you who sell it what buys you better ?"
F. De André --- Free NAT KVM
URL Shortener | YetiNode | Come join us on the MetalVPS IRC channel!!! | Don't be a jerk, let YetiNode do the work.
Hi @Mumbly!
Probably I made a mistake, but the reason +r is set on #metalvps is that, according to Libera, "most bots do not log in to accounts." It seemed to me that, at the beginning, it might be better to try keeping the channel more simple by excluding bots and unregistered users.
Libera says, "users connecting to Libera.Chat without accounts will remain uncloaked." Do you want to stay uncloaked?
Are there differences between logging in to Libera and logging in to a green forum?
Could you please help me understand other reasons why people might not want to register their nicks with Libera and log in to their Libera accounts? What am I missing?
Thanks for helping me understand! Best wishes!
Tom
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
It's really not that important, but I can help you understand.
At the beginning, you want visitors. Locking the channel is counterproductive in that sense. The best analogy for +r would be a non-public/secret/locked forum where only registered users can see posts.
Channel owners generally want the channel filled with people and set +r as a temporary measure only in cases where there are problematic ban evaders, etc. Exceptions may include some "teamler" channels (i.e., internal forum staff sections) or the need to stay exclusive for some reason.
It makes no difference for casual visitor. People from EFnet and IRCnet survived 30 years of IRCing without cloaking
It's nice option to have it, but some people still prefer "vanity vhosts" (that's part of the irc culture) or simply don't bothet with that. Just hopping on IRC every now and then does not require a cloak. Especially if that's not your primary IRC network (Libera is just one of many).
Yes, of course - it's just IRC. That's completely optional on some IRC networks, and there's no option to do that on the others. It makes sense to register in case you want to "own" a nickname if the network supports it, but apart from that it's just optional.
Just hopping on IRC every now and then does not require a account. Especially if that's not your primary IRC network (Libera is just one of many) - again. That's the beauty of IRC compared to all those newer, modern social platforms that require registration.
When you started researching IRC, how many channels did not let you in because you weren't registered?
@Mumbly Thanks for explaining about the +r!
It seems okay if there is a low, easily overcome barrier to entry.
Is there a way for someone like you to be allowed in as an individual exception to the registration requirement?
About the first thing I did was register an account on Libera, so trying to join channels while unregistered hasn't really come up yet for me.
Thanks again!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
This is not how IRC works. IRC can't be judged through modern platform glasses or compared with forums.
The beauty of IRC is that anyone can join and start chatting. IRC itself does not require user account registrations. The original idea of IRC was that a nickname is just a nickname, not a form of user identification. The original IRC networks still adhere to that philosophy, while others may not. However, IRC networks including Libera do not require user account registrations just some channels do.
While some channels do require registration, it's rare. There are usually one of the two reasons for this. One is due to a tendency to create an exclusive "1337" club, and the other is entirely legitimate, such as preventing too much noise from visitors on high-traffic support channels.
When you said, "It seems okay if there is a low, easily overcome barrier to entry," you're actually creating a limitation, barrier, for the channel, not for the visitors. You see, there are hundreds of IRC networks and thousands of IRC channels. People have choice. But it depends on what you want to achieve with the channel. Do you want to build a nice community or just to keep around half-dozen of idlers?
The primary reason why most people try to join channel as yours is curiosity. It's not for some significant, important reason, just curiosity. But when faced with a message like "Cannot join channel (+r) - you need to be logged into your NickServ account," they will simply flee away and forget about it instantly. Because they don't need your channel to exist on IRC. It's other way around - you need a people to call your chatroom a #channel. That's how things work on IRC.
People in general wont invest effort into joining your channel; if anyone it will likely be you investing the effort to invite people on the channel.
If you simply want to keep some potential nuisances out (new, small channels won't experience noteworthy nuisances), there are proper channel modes to achieve that, such as +s (secret) or +p (private).
When a channel is set to +s mode, it means that the channel will not appear in the list of channels when someone uses the "/list" command. Users also won't see +s channels when they use the "/whois" command to retrieve information about a specific user.
The writing above is solely for your understanding of IRC. It's not meant to pressure you into anything. I am also aware that my perspective may differ from the perspective of those who have grown up with the internet and social networks over the last 15 years or so.
If you feel more comfortable with +r mode, then so be it. How channels are managed is solely in the hands of the operator, or to say it differently, "your channel - your rules," and there's no one who can object to that as long as it's within network guidelines.