Best way to install Nextcloud

imokimok OG
in Technical

I'm thinking about installing Nextcloud to manage my photos and some documents.

Do you recommend using the PHP installer or Docker? I don't know that much about Docker, but shouldn't be that hard.

What's the best method to install, maintain and highly possible migrate later?

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  • MichaelCeeMichaelCee Hosting ProviderOGServices Provider

    @imok said: but shouldn't be that hard.

    Famous last words see you in 8 months.

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    Softaculous seems easy enough:
    https://www.softaculous.com/apps/files/Nextcloud

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  • shallowshallow

    If by migrate you mean to another server, as opposed to other software (ie. Owncloud), then a docker container might be easiest to migrate from one server to another (running docker).

  • MumblyMumbly
    edited February 2023

    @imok said:
    What's the best method to install, maintain and highly possible migrate later?

    Lazy as I am lately I use just Hestiacp nextcloud installer for that.

    • Few seconds to install Nextcloud.
    • Few seconds to create Hestiacp account backup (ie. v-backup-user username)
    • Few seconds to restore this backup on the other Hestiacp server. (ie. bash -x v-restore-user username example.2022-10-15_10-55-02.tar)
    • And then all what's needed to do it to reset Let's Encrypt certs (also via control panel of course).

    With a lot of nextcloud data will take a bit longer of course, but in principle it's just one line for every operation.

    The same effortless way also if you need to change IP or switch to new domain.

    • v-change-web-domain-ip username example.com 47.xx.xx.xxx yes
    • v-change-web-domain-name username example1.com example2.com yes
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  • skorupionskorupion Services Provider
    edited February 2023

    Installation of nextcloud - the vanilla way with PHP MariaDB and apache: https://blog.crunchbits.com/tutorial-how-to-install-nextcloud-on-ubuntu-2204/ (written by me)

    As for migration if you keep the files on the default path then you just have to migrate everything under /var/www/nextcloud.domain.tld (consider zipping it up, and on the destination host unzipping it) and copy-paste your PHP config and apache config, and you are done

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  • skorousskorous OGSenpai

    @MichaelCee said:

    @imok said: but shouldn't be that hard.

    Famous last words see you in 8 months.

    I actually got the Docker instance set up first try in only like twenty minutes. It made me so suspicious that I turned it off figuring I'd messed something up. I'm still not sure I didn't.

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  • ariq01ariq01
    edited February 2023

    Softaculous is the easiest way (in case using shared hosting), and Docker.

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  • vyasvyas OGSenpai

    @skorupion said:
    Installation of nextcloud - the vanilla way with PHP MariaDB and apache: https://blog.crunchbits.com/tutorial-how-to-install-nextcloud-on-ubuntu-2204/ (written by me)

    Nice. How have you set up ghost blog?

    blog | exploring visually |

  • Flying_ChinamanFlying_Chinaman

    docker pull, problem solved

    Ontario Dildo Inspector

  • selalumenangselalumenang

    the "best" way to install is, install nginx PHP mariadb nextcloud.
    sometimes best doesn't necessarily to be easy

    Thanked by (1)AlwaysSkint
  • ElonBezosElonBezos

    i just installed it yesterday using docker from easypanel, can't tell you further about it, but the installation process was quite easy for me whos know nothing about docker

    next just for fun im going to try install it on a shared hosting + ext storage (my freebie 150GB storj bucket and ftp backup storage). i hope the cpu and memory limit will be sufficient for that, sorry if this out of topic

  • skorupionskorupion Services Provider

    @vyas said:

    @skorupion said:
    Installation of nextcloud - the vanilla way with PHP MariaDB and apache: https://blog.crunchbits.com/tutorial-how-to-install-nextcloud-on-ubuntu-2204/ (written by me)

    Nice. How have you set up ghost blog?

    I'll write a tutorial about it in a few days

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  • FritzFritz

    I'm surprised with Nextcloud Hub 3 (v.25).

    A lot of improvments there. Faster and nicer UI.

    Btw, I recommend install using Docker from linuxserver.io

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  • AmitzAmitz OG
    edited February 2023

    Dear @imok,

    I do not doubt at all that you have the skills to install Nextcloud. Either directly or via docker. I did that too in the past, so probably everyone can. Installing and configuring is not the issue. What really pissed me off was the fact that nearly every update (and you want to update to get all security fixes) broke something. I found it a pain in the rectum to maintain my own Nextcloud instance properly. So, in the end, I decided to go with a managed solution (Hetzner StorageShare in my case) and let them do the unpleasant part.

    It depends on you, your life setting and what you are trying to achieve. Is installing Nextcloud something you always wanted to do, just for the fun of it, or are you planning to use your instance seriously and do you rely on it always working for your photos & stuff? I simply do not have the time any longer to chase trouble fixes for hours if an update breaks something again.

    I understand that there may be privacy concerns hosting your precious image material on a third-party server. Still I found it not worth the hassle to do it myself. There is still the possibility to encrypt data before uploading it. And to come back to the original question: I would go the docker route nowadays. It is probably much easier to migrate than a "bare metal" installation.

    Kind regards
    Amitz

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  • angstromangstrom OG
    edited February 2023

    @Amitz said: What really pissed me off was the fact that nearly every update (and you want to update to get all security fixes) broke something. I found it a pain in the ass the maintain my own Nextcloud instance properly.

    I think that Nextcloud has improved a lot with respect to updates, especially minor-number updates. What can still be tricky are major-number updates, where you often need to carry out a modification in the Nextcloud database afterwards and perhaps other modifications, not to mention that certain third-party apps may no longer work (until they've been updated to work with the new major version)

    So yes, if you run Nextcloud on a server, it does require some attention and maintenance/effort

    I've always wondered how this works in practice on shared hosting, as far as running Nextcloud over a longer term is concerned (and wanting to perform updates), especially if one doesn't have ssh access

    I haven't yet tried to install the Docker version of Nextcloud -- in general, I don't have much experience with Docker -- but I imagine that the resource requirements are more demanding for the Docker version. But the issues that arise with the maintenance and updating of Nextcloud are probably similar

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer
    edited February 2023

    @angstrom said:

    @Amitz said: What really pissed me off was the fact that nearly every update (and you want to update to get all security fixes) broke something. I found it a pain in the ass the maintain my own Nextcloud instance properly.

    I think that Nextcloud has improved a lot with respect to updates, especially minor-number updates. What can still be tricky are major-number updates, where you often need to carry out a modification in the Nextcloud database afterwards and perhaps other modifications, not to mention that certain third-party apps may no longer work (until they've been updated to work with the new major version)

    So yes, if you run Nextcloud on a server, it does require some attention and maintenance/effort

    I've always wondered how this works in practice on shared hosting, as far as running Nextcloud over a longer term is concerned (and wanting to perform updates), especially if one doesn't have ssh access

    I haven't yet tried to install the Docker version of Nextcloud -- in general, I don't have much experience with Docker -- but I imagine that the resource requirements are more demanding for the Docker version. But the issues that arise with the maintenance and updating of Nextcloud are probably similar

    On Shared Hosting I'd assume updating can be done via Softaculous if no SSH access is available. You can also first take a backup via Softaculous or clone the installation to test the waters before upgrading.

    One reason why I opted for lifetime pCloud/Koofr is that I didn't want to deal with maintaining Nextcloud/Owncloud installs and back then I didn't know about Hetzner Storage Cloud and/or preferred lifetime deals (cant remember; maybe a combination of both).

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  • MumblyMumbly
    edited February 2023

    @Ympker said: On Shared Hosting I'd assume updating can be done via Softaculous if no SSH access is available.

    There's easier way which work most of the time. (in my case so far always)
    Backup "data" folder and "config" file (that's all what's needed to be preserved - and of course database stay, I am talking only about installation files), extract and upload new version, insert old data folder & config file and run update via web updater.
    Experience with webupdater directly from the old installation with all those errors on almost every step can be very miserable, but with uploading new version manually most of those steps are skipped.

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  • angstromangstrom OG

    @Ympker said:

    @angstrom said:

    @Amitz said: What really pissed me off was the fact that nearly every update (and you want to update to get all security fixes) broke something. I found it a pain in the ass the maintain my own Nextcloud instance properly.

    I think that Nextcloud has improved a lot with respect to updates, especially minor-number updates. What can still be tricky are major-number updates, where you often need to carry out a modification in the Nextcloud database afterwards and perhaps other modifications, not to mention that certain third-party apps may no longer work (until they've been updated to work with the new major version)

    So yes, if you run Nextcloud on a server, it does require some attention and maintenance/effort

    I've always wondered how this works in practice on shared hosting, as far as running Nextcloud over a longer term is concerned (and wanting to perform updates), especially if one doesn't have ssh access

    I haven't yet tried to install the Docker version of Nextcloud -- in general, I don't have much experience with Docker -- but I imagine that the resource requirements are more demanding for the Docker version. But the issues that arise with the maintenance and updating of Nextcloud are probably similar

    On Shared Hosting I'd assume updating can be done via Softaculous if no SSH access is available. You can also first take a backup via Softaculous or clone the installation to test the waters before upgrading.

    I see: so Softaculous can also perform intelligent updates of applications?

    I'd still worry a bit though in the case of updating a big application like Nextcloud via Softaculous on shared hosting without ssh access (or even with ssh access =) )

    One reason why I opted for lifetime pCloud/Koofr is that I didn't want to deal with maintaining Nextcloud/Owncloud installs and back then I didn't know about Hetzner Storage Cloud and/or preferred lifetime deals (cant remember; maybe a combination of both).

    I/We know that you like lifetime deals ;)

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  • MumblyMumbly
    edited February 2023

    @angstrom said: I'd still worry a bit though in the case of updating a big application like Nextcloud via Softaculous on shared hosting without ssh access (or even with ssh access )

    But you don't need ssh neither use softaculous for that. Just replace old installation with new installation via FTP and copy back old "data" folder and config file and then run webupdater. Most of potential errors of webupdater are eliminated with manual uplading of new installation files.

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  • angstromangstrom OG

    @Mumbly said:

    @angstrom said: I'd still worry a bit though in the case of updating a big application like Nextcloud via Softaculous on shared hosting without ssh access (or even with ssh access )

    But you don't need ssh neither use softaculous for that. Just replace old installation with new installation via FTP and copy back old "data" folder and config file and then run webupdater. Most of potential errors of webupdater are eliminated with manual uplading of new installation files.

    I should try this sometime =)

    Just wondering: assuming Nextcloud on shared hosting with ssh access, can one still use the command line tool occ unproblematically?

    Thanked by (1)Ympker

    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • MumblyMumbly
    edited February 2023

    @angstrom said:

    @Mumbly said:

    @angstrom said: I'd still worry a bit though in the case of updating a big application like Nextcloud via Softaculous on shared hosting without ssh access (or even with ssh access )

    But you don't need ssh neither use softaculous for that. Just replace old installation with new installation via FTP and copy back old "data" folder and config file and then run webupdater. Most of potential errors of webupdater are eliminated with manual uplading of new installation files.

    I should try this sometime =)

    Just wondering: assuming Nextcloud on shared hosting with ssh access, can one still use the command line tool occ unproblematically?

    I can't (hestiacp quick installer), but so far I never even required it.

    edit
    But now it made me think if I even tryed it directly from the shell user account. I can't check it right now as I am not at home, but it's most likely nologin setup, so disregard my answer above.

  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer
    edited February 2023

    @angstrom said:

    I see: so Softaculous can also perform intelligent updates of applications?

    I'd still worry a bit though in the case of updating a big application like Nextcloud via Softaculous on shared hosting without ssh access (or even with ssh access =) )

    I never used Nextcloud with Softaculous, but assuming that the apps available on Softaculous have the same basic features (update, clone, migrate, backup, install/uninstall, restore) it should be quite straight forward to upgrade the version through Softaculous, or follow the instructions by @Mumbly and replace with new files.
    Should I use Nextcloud for anything serious, I would probably go the hosted/managed route by Hetzner :P

    I/We know that you like lifetime deals ;)

    Hmm..... do I? :tongue:

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  • angstromangstrom OG

    @Mumbly said:

    @angstrom said:

    @Mumbly said:

    @angstrom said: I'd still worry a bit though in the case of updating a big application like Nextcloud via Softaculous on shared hosting without ssh access (or even with ssh access )

    But you don't need ssh neither use softaculous for that. Just replace old installation with new installation via FTP and copy back old "data" folder and config file and then run webupdater. Most of potential errors of webupdater are eliminated with manual uplading of new installation files.

    I should try this sometime =)

    Just wondering: assuming Nextcloud on shared hosting with ssh access, can one still use the command line tool occ unproblematically?

    I can't (hestiacp quick installer), but so far I never even required it.

    edit
    But now it made me think if I even tryed it directly from the shell user account. I can't check it right now as I am not at home, but it's most likely nologin setup, so disregard my answer above.

    Okay, but what if a Nextcloud major update requires (asks for) a modification to the Nextcloud database? Usually, one uses the tool occ to perform the required modification to the Nextcloud database

    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • angstromangstrom OG

    @Ympker said:

    @angstrom said:
    I/We know that you like lifetime deals ;)

    Hmm..... do I? :tongue:

    I thought that you did like lifetime deals and that you have even said so a few times, but perhaps I got this wrong! It was meant to be a semi-insider comment, but I guess that I got it wrong. Sorry about this

    Thanked by (1)Ympker

    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • MumblyMumbly
    edited February 2023

    @angstrom said: Okay, but what if a Nextcloud major update requires (asks for) a modification to the Nextcloud database? Usually, one uses the tool occ to perform the required modification to the Nextcloud database

    After built-in updater finish files update work (i do this part manually via (s)FTP, because there's very big chance to get error on several steps) it asks you to finish update via url. I assume all the necessary modifications are done in this process as it never required from me to tinker with the database via command line.

  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @angstrom said:

    @Ympker said:

    @angstrom said:
    I/We know that you like lifetime deals ;)

    Hmm..... do I? :tongue:

    I thought that you did like lifetime deals and that you have even said so a few times, but perhaps I got this wrong! It was meant to be a semi-insider comment, but I guess that I got it wrong. Sorry about this

    Lol not sure if this was irony there, but I do in fact dig lifetime deals and am a self-proclaimed LTD hoarder (VPNs & Storage Deals and SaaS), so you were definitely correct about that. No need to feel sorry mate ;)

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  • angstromangstrom OG

    @Ympker said:

    @angstrom said:

    @Ympker said:

    @angstrom said:
    I/We know that you like lifetime deals ;)

    Hmm..... do I? :tongue:

    I thought that you did like lifetime deals and that you have even said so a few times, but perhaps I got this wrong! It was meant to be a semi-insider comment, but I guess that I got it wrong. Sorry about this

    Lol not sure if this was irony there, but I do in fact dig lifetime deals and am a self-proclaimed LTD hoarder (VPNs & Storage Deals and SaaS), so you were definitely correct about that. No need to feel sorry mate ;)

    If I had a lifetime (pCloud/Koofr) storage deal, I would probably drop Nextcloud as well :)

    My comment was simply intended as a semi-insider smiley comment :)

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    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • angstromangstrom OG

    @Mumbly said:

    @angstrom said: Okay, but what if a Nextcloud major update requires (asks for) a modification to the Nextcloud database? Usually, one uses the tool occ to perform the required modification to the Nextcloud database

    After built-in updater finish files update work (i do this part manually via (s)FTP, because there's very big chance to get error on several steps) it asks you to finish update via url. I assume all the necessary modifications are done in this process as it never required from me to tinker with the database via command line.

    Yes, this is all clear, but what if one needs to update/modify the Nextcloud database after an update?

    "A single swap file or partition may be up to 128 MB in size. [...] [I]f you need 256 MB of swap, you can create two 128-MB swap partitions." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 49)

  • TrKTrK

    The easiest way would be, getting a beefy server, installing easypanel or dokku and install it with one click and you get to limit everything with a nice GUI.

    Active lurker nothing more nothing less, want to discuss something? i am all ears!

  • FritzFritz

    @TrK said:
    The easiest way would be, getting a beefy server, installing easypanel or dokku and install it with one click and you get to limit everything with a nice GUI.

    Interesting, mind to share which one to choose between them?

    https://microlxc.net/

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