EU 14 day cooling off period vs. Hosting Services

Abdullah · May 2023

A client recently pulled out the EU Law card, for a full refund, citing the mighty EU law for a VPS service which they customized to their liking and used for 7 days already.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

Did you know that while EU law grants a 14-day cooling off period for online purchases, there are exceptions to this rule?
This cooling off period doesn't apply to goods or services that are made to order or clearly personalized.
The law exempts tailor-made services—just like the one-of-a-kind suit you can't return once it's crafted to your exact measurements.

Here is our conversation -

Client -

I would like to proceed with ordering vps as we talked about. But i would like this :

600mbit unmetered
2 cores
2gb ram
20gb disk

$40 per month

600mbit, so i can use the vps as vpn for my own pc and phone aswell.
Traffic wont be hitting 600/600 at all times. It is just a good to have, and peace of mind thing.

If all good, go ahead with this. Thank you.

Me -

I've added Invoice #1428 to account , kindly confirm once paid.

Client -

Hello sir. Are you still here?

Me -

Please advise how you'd like to proceed.

Client -

Since you are running a rather small business, i would like to have a invoice showing the specs agreed upon. Please delete the current invoice, and state all specs on a new one instead.

2 cores
2gb ram
20gb disk
600mbit unmetered connection with no limits

Once this is done, please go ahead and provision the vm. I will pay the invoice asap.

Me -

Invoice sent.

Client -

I tried to reach you via live chat.

Me -

I've set the invoice as per your request.

Paid & activated, client uses the service for next 7 days.

Client -

Hello sir. Just one question for you :
Are you DMCA ignore?

Me -

If we receive any report we will forward it to you.

Client -

Can we lower the price if i want 400mbit unmetered instead?

Me -

I understand that pricing is an important consideration, and we appreciate your interest in exploring different options. However, I believe that the current plan you have, with a 600Mbit unmetered connection, offers the best value.

With the 600Mbit plan, you have a higher bandwidth capacity, allowing for multiple connections.

400Mbit will cost you around $35 with the same vps specifications.

Client -

In that case, i would like to cancel at the end of this billing period.

Client -

Since there has been less than 14 days, i would like to use my right for refund for my server on IP x.x.x.x

Reason being it is from time to time getting some packet loss, and i got a better deal for cheaper, thats why i asked about the pricing. Feel free to take it down any time and perform the refund. If you want, you can paypal me $30 (or send litecoin for $30 instead of refunding $40 back to my card.

paypal : ...
LiteCoin : ...

Me - Issues a prorated refund of $30.

Refund has been issued
Please allow 3-5 business days for the refund to appear on your original payment source & feel free to
let us know if there's anything else we can help you with

Client -

By eu law i have the Right for a FULL refund within 14 days for any online service or items. Please issue the rest of the money.

Me -

We understand that you believe EU law grants you the right to a full refund within 14 days for any online service or items. However, we would like to clarify the applicability of the law in your specific case.

As per EU law, the 14-day cooling off period does indeed provide consumers with the right to request a refund for certain online purchases. However, there are exemptions to this rule, and one of those exemptions includes goods or services that are made to order or clearly personalized, such as our customized plan.

In your situation, the plan we provided was tailored specifically to your requirements and preferences, making it a personalized service. Therefore, the standard 14-day cooling off period does not apply in this instance.

However, we value your satisfaction as a client, and we strive to maintain a positive business relationship with you. Considering this, we issued a prorated refund based on the number of days you had utilized the customized plan. This refund amount accurately reflects the portion of the service that you did not use.

Please refer https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm

Client -

It is not like you cannot resell those resources. Give full refund, or i will take this furter.

In the spirit of fairness, we issued a prorated refund, deducting only for the days the customized service was used. A fair compromise, don't you think?

What's your take on applying this to Hosting services ?
Are you a firm believer in the right to a full refund within 14 days?
Maybe you have a unique perspective to share!

Cheers!

skorous · May 2023

"Have your lawyer call my lawyer - they'll do lunch. By the by, I've revoked your pro-rated refund to cover legal expenses."

Abdullah · May 2023

@skorous said:
"Have your lawyer call my lawyer - they'll do lunch. By the by, I've revoked your pro-rated refund to cover legal expenses."

I wish.
That would piss them off,

havoc · May 2023

Not perfect, but I'd say it falls under:

online digital content, if you have already started downloading or streaming it

But yeah that customer was always gonna be a problem...you can tell from the conversation right from the start. Hard to tell exactly what but something was off

Neoon · May 2023

You can add a checkbox, which basically says "I expressly agree that the execution of the contract will begin before the cancellation period has expired. I am aware that I will lose my right of withdrawal from the beginning of the execution of the contract."

Some providers are using that, apparently legal.

Mumbly · May 2023

Ah, some people ...

@Abdullah said: Give full refund, or i will take this furter.

"Bring it on!"

Are you even incorporated in the EU?

FrankZ · May 2023

So what you are saying is I can book a hotel online in EU, arrive the next day, checkout after staying 10 days, and I can quote the law you stipulated above so as to not pay the hotel ? /j

I am not familiar with EU law but my opinion would be that the tailor-made services exemption would not apply for hosting services in the same way that it would apply to goods like a suit, or a service like catering.
That said I also can not see how the law could reasonably be enforced after the buyer had used the service for 7 days. I think that your decision to offer a prorated refund was the fair and reasonable thing to do.

The client requesting $30 via PayPal or crypto raised some red flags for me so I might expect something else is going on here.

EDIT: spelling

Abdullah · May 2023

@havoc said:

But yeah that customer was always gonna be a problem...you can tell from the conversation right from the start. Hard to tell exactly what but something was off

Same! When they said

Since you are running a rather small business, i would like to have a invoice showing the specs agreed upon. Please delete the current invoice, and state all specs on a new one instead.
Once this is done, please go ahead and provision the vm. I will pay the invoice asap.

Abdullah · May 2023

@Mumbly said:
Ah, some people ...

@Abdullah said: Give full refund, or i will take this furter.

"Bring it on!"

Are you even incorporated in the EU?

yeah, in the UK

TheDP · May 2023

Cuntstomer.

ehab · May 2023

i am not an expert in law. This guy is a dick. I hope he is not a LES member.
just close his account and add blacklist him.

lapua · May 2023

EU is a sinking ship!

Janevski · May 2023

@Abdullah said: Since you are running a rather small business, i would like to have a invoice showing the specs agreed upon. Please delete the current invoice, and state all specs on a new one instead.

This is insulting.
The client is an arrogant asshole.
Just leave him into the void and don't waste any of your resorces and energy on him, any more.

PS: He can shove those EU grandma tales up his ass.
You already went above and beyond and refunded him.

skorous · May 2023

@Abdullah said:

@Mumbly said:
Ah, some people ...

@Abdullah said: Give full refund, or i will take this furter.

"Bring it on!"

Are you even incorporated in the EU?

yeah, in the UK

I thought you said you were incorporated in the EU. ;-)

aeg · May 2023

I believe the tailor-made goods exemption only applies to goods, not to services.

However, for service contracts, Article 14(3): "Where a consumer exercises the right of withdrawal after having made a request in accordance with Article 7(3) or Article 8(8), the consumer shall pay to the trader an amount which is in proportion to what has been provided until the time the consumer has informed the trader of the exercise of the right of withdrawal, in comparison with the full coverage of the contract. The proportionate amount to be paid by the consumer to the trader shall be calculated on the basis of the total price agreed in the contract."

Guidance from 2021/C 525/01: "For example, a consumer who withdraws from a contract for mobile telephone services after using the service for 10 days would have to pay the trader one third of the monthly subscription plus the price of any additional services received during that period."

I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

Mumbly · May 2023

@Abdullah said: yeah, in the UK

Bbb..but, UK isn't part of the EU anymore :P

cybertech · June 2023

this customer is just a whiny little bitch so dont worry about it.

rcy026 · June 2023

@FrankZ said:
So what you are saying is I can book a hotel online in EU, arrive the next day, checkout after staying 10 days, and I can quote the law you stipulated above so as to not pay the hotel ? /j

No, you can not. The law applies to goods, not services.
If I check in, use the hotel room and then try to cancel, you as a provider can not resell the time I spent in that room to recoup the costs.
The idea behind the law is that if the seller can resell the goods as unused and not lose money, then you have the right to a refund.

FrankZ · June 2023

@rcy026 said:

@FrankZ said:
So what you are saying is I can book a hotel online in EU, arrive the next day, checkout after staying 10 days, and I can quote the law you stipulated above so as to not pay the hotel ? /j

No, you can not. The law applies to goods, not services.
If I check in, use the hotel room and then try to cancel, you as a provider can not resell the time I spent in that room to recoup the costs.
The idea behind the law is that if the seller can resell the goods as unused and not lose money, then you have the right to a refund.

Thank you for the clarification.
I was joking [/j] because that was what the client in the OP was expecting to do.

yoursunny · June 2023

I buy a non-customized shirt from EU website, do 100 push-ups wearing it, and then return the sweaty shirt.
This doesn't seem to fall in an exception.

PS. in USA such returns are allowable by most brands, but each customer can only return four sweaty shirts per year.

lapua · June 2023

@yoursunny said:
I buy a non-customized shirt from EU website, do 100 push-ups wearing it, and then return the sweaty shirt.
This doesn't seem to fall in an exception.

PS. in USA such returns are allowable by most brands, but each customer can only return four sweaty shirts per year.

if the goods are used (and smelly) the refund price will be reduced.

Ympker · June 2023

@lapua said:

@yoursunny said:
I buy a non-customized shirt from EU website, do 100 push-ups wearing it, and then return the sweaty shirt.
This doesn't seem to fall in an exception.

PS. in USA such returns are allowable by most brands, but each customer can only return four sweaty shirts per year.

if the goods are used (and smelly) the refund price will be reduced.

Except Amazon which kind of accepts all returns within 14 days. At least I have always received the full price back.

yoursunny · June 2023

@lapua said:
if the goods are used (and smelly) the refund price will be reduced.

Sweaty shirts can be sold for higher price than new shirts, because fetish.

Janevski · June 2023

@yoursunny said: and then return the sweaty shirt.

But, you just increased the shirt value.
Some people enjoy other people sweaty undergarment.

yoursunny · June 2023

@Janevski said:

@yoursunny said: and then return the sweaty shirt.

But, you just increased the shirt value.
Some people enjoy other people sweaty undergarment.

Look over my video archives and pick any item you want.
$69/each excluding shipping.
I'll make sure it's hot and sweaty.

TheDP · June 2023

@yoursunny said:

@Janevski said:

@yoursunny said: and then return the sweaty shirt.

But, you just increased the shirt value.
Some people enjoy other people sweaty undergarment.

Look over my video archives and pick any item you want.
$69/each excluding shipping.
I'll make sure it's hot and sweaty.

You're offering the wrong person.

@ehab is the right prospect for this.

ehab · June 2023

@TheDP said:

@yoursunny said:

@Janevski said:

@yoursunny said: and then return the sweaty shirt.

But, you just increased the shirt value.
Some people enjoy other people sweaty undergarment.

Look over my video archives and pick any item you want.
$69/each excluding shipping.
I'll make sure it's hot and sweaty.

You're offering the wrong person.

@ehab is the right prospect for this.

AuroraZero · June 2023

@Abdullah just deadpool that will teach them

Ananchoreta · June 2023

@Abdullah
Take a look at the TOS of Contabo:
https://contabo.com/de/legal/right-of-withdrawal/

Erlöschen des Widerrufsrechts
Ihr Widerrufsrecht erlischt, wenn wir die Dienstleistung vollständig erbracht haben und mit der Ausführung der Dienstleistung erst begonnen haben, nachdem Sie dazu Ihre, auf einem dauerhaften Datenträger übermittelte, ausdrückliche Zustimmung gegeben haben und gleichzeitig Ihre Kenntnis davon bestätigt haben, dass Sie Ihr Widerrufsrecht bei vollständiger Vertragserfüllung durch uns verlieren.

Expiry of the right of withdrawal
Your right of withdrawal will expire when we have fully performed the service and have only started to perform the service after you have given your express consent to this, transmitted on a durable medium, and at the same time confirmed your knowledge that you will lose your right of withdrawal upon full performance of the contract by us.

As @Neoon said: You need to have a checkbox which explicitly states that they must agree that the 14-day right of withdrawal expires as soon as the server has been provisioned - and else not let them sign the contract.

Just check with Netcup or Contabo to see how they do it.

yoursunny · June 2023

@TheDP said:

@yoursunny said:
Look over my video archives and pick any item you want.
$69/each excluding shipping.
I'll make sure it's hot and sweaty.

You're offering the wrong person.

@ehab is the right prospect for this.

I'll give @ehab a discount: sweaty shirt + pants + undies + socks for $189/set, a $276 value.
Simply bid $189 or more on my next domain auction, and send me a UPS shipping label.

teamacc · June 2023

In my opinion you should let this one go. For you it'd only be a difference of 10 euros (30 vs 40 euros). Use it as a learning experience and incorporate the changes proposed in this thread to prevent it from being an issue again in the future.

Would save you a lot of headache, and the advise gotten in this thread as a result of it is already worth more than what a lawyer would give you for 10 euros.

Then again, that client is/was a dick.

EU 14 day cooling off period vs. Hosting Services

Comments