Please help formulate MetalVPS BF Offers! Thanks!

Not_Oles · November 2023

Hello!

Sorry, I don't know what to offer for MetalVPS on BF.

Right now I have an available E3 at Hetzner FSN and also Redacted said it is going to set me up with an E3 in the US. Both E3s could be used for the MetalVPS BF offer, assuming that the US server is ready in time.

Both servers have only one IPv4 each. Both servers have an IPv6/64.

Do you have ideas for MetalVPS? Hopefully ideas that do not require working with less than 100% open source software.

Thanks!

Tom

root · November 2023

Free NAT LXC VPS with 20 ports offered if posting 20 hot and happy gif images, to keep up the hype on the Black Friday thread, but not more than 1 gif every 5 minutes (to avoid spam).

Not_Oles · November 2023

Idea I received off list: 50% off for one month on a bare metal server to some lucky guy who has a good use for the server on a one month project.

Otus9051 · November 2023

a free dedicated for me
but seriously maybe like a lifetime 25% off

yoursunny · November 2023

@Otus9051 said:
a free dedicated for me

Sure but deleting in 3 days.

Flying_Chinaman · November 2023

Wow, Chianman need free chick!

sh97 · November 2023

MetalVPS used to give free shell accounts before the abuse earlier this year.
What about giving free IPv6-only VPS? For access to NAT IPv4, a fee must be paid to metal VPS.
VPS could be made using Proxmox or following the virtlib tutorial? Both are 100% open source.

Neoon · November 2023

Get a /56 or /48 first, so you can do a /64 per VPS, makes everything easier.
Do LXC with a /64 included, easy to handle abuses.

I think @yoursunny already talked about this a while ago.
Do NAT only for people you trust or you need some kind of system that keeps track or monitors which connections the VPS does, so in case you get an abuse, easy to handle otherwise is going to suck.

Forwarded ports should not be a problem for abuse, since they can easy be tracked down too.
HAProxy the same.

Ganonk · November 2023

@Flying_Chinaman said:
Wow, Chianman need free chick!

welkambek btw 😃

Otus9051 · November 2023

if there's byoip i can provide a lot of ips (i got a /40)

Not_Oles · November 2023

Please assume that MetalVPS has a US server:

E3-1270 v5;
32GB ECC RAM;
4 x 2 TB SSD;
IPv4/32; IPv6/48;
1 Gbps; and
Cost $45/month.

How could a BF offer be structured so as to sell out and reimburse the cost of the server? Even without profit, it seems impossible to match existing offers.

For example, suppose we offer backup disk space in 1 TB units. That's 8 x 1 TB storage units per server.

$45/8 = $8.63.

It's easy to find Providers selling cheaper storage. For example, awesome [Redacted] offers awesome 1 TB Storage Boxes for €3.20 per month, which is approximately $3.42. I seem to recall other Low End Providers selling backup space for about $2 per TB or a little more. $8.63 is a lot more than $2.00!

I don't see any way a reseller could compete on price, except to stop reselling, buy a data center, and scale way up,

Therefore, the only possibility for MetalVPS, as a reseller, is not to offer a fungible, "standard product" and not to compete on price.

@FAT32 Please prove me wrong! I love to be wrong!

terrorgen · November 2023

Maybe you can slice it further. Not everyone would need 1TB per VPS.
Many sells less disk space for more per month.
What is the location of the machine? Maybe it has a better ping to certain places that would attract people who has the needs.

Not_Oles · November 2023

@terrorgen said:
Maybe you can slice it further. Not everyone would need 1TB per VPS.
Many sells less disk space for more per month.
What is the location of the machine? Maybe it has a better ping to certain places that would attract people who has the needs.

Hi @terrorgen! Could you please suggest specific numbers which you think would work? Thanks so much!

root · November 2023

Another approach: hosting. You got just one IP after all.

1 hosting plan with 10GB = $0.1
1 hosting plan with 100GB = $1
1 hosting plan with 1000GB = $10
8 hosting plans with 8000GB = $80

You decide how to scale this, but because this is low-end, I would say 10GB metal hosting with just 10 metal cents ($0.1) could be easier for advertising.

Bad side: support and abusers with spam. Having 800 customers on a server like that, when many could be MJJ impersonating other MJJ... oh boy!

Good side: it could be fun.

crunchbits · November 2023

@Not_Oles said:
Please assume that MetalVPS has a US server:

E3-1270 v5;

32GB ECC RAM;

4 x 2 TB SSD;

IPv4/32; IPv6/48;

1 Gbps; and

Cost $45/month.

How could a BF offer be structured so as to sell out and reimburse the cost of the server? Even without profit, it seems impossible to match existing offers.

For example, suppose we offer backup disk space in 1 TB units. That's 8 x 1 TB storage units per server.

$45/8 = $8.63.

It's easy to find Providers selling cheaper storage. For example, awesome [Redacted] offers awesome 1 TB Storage Boxes for €3.20 per month, which is approximately $3.42. I seem to recall other Low End Providers selling backup space for about $2 per TB or a little more. $8.63 is a lot more than $2.00!

I don't see any way a reseller could compete on price, except to stop reselling, buy a data center, and scale way up,

Therefore, the only possibility for MetalVPS, as a reseller, is not to offer a fungible, "standard product" and not to compete on price.

@FAT32 Please prove me wrong! I love to be wrong!

Have to decide what you want to do and how you'd like to target certain 'niches' or activities. Given that you have E3's often (Hetzner and at that extremely premium and cool US-based provider) I'd be looking at how you can work that angle. E3's are lower core counts, much higher core clocks. 4x2TB SSD just depends how you set it up (4 naked disks, raid-5, 6, 10... 0 like a madman?). I still think there are certain markets that are completely overlooked/available to be serviced that would benefit from a much more hands-on or active management approach (cough @sh97 ).

Taking your E3 listed here and your approach to sell backup space isn't a great approach. You only have 8TB if every disk is run naked (extremely high risk of partial data loss or node loss). Realistically you'd be looking at 4TB to 6TB * 0.9 usable/sellable (RAID-10 / 5). It's just not the right system combination for that:

RAID-5 isn't really ideal for selling production backup space imo (even if SSD/NVMe)
It's pure SSD which costs you more but are people willing to pay for that?
You're competing against people like us who routinely have deals in the $2.25 to $3/TB range, and we're not the only ones.

I think @terrorgen is on the right path, as I've stated before about similar use-cases. Another alternative use-case since you like to learn:

Consider asking your host to swap in a E3-1245 v5 or 1275 v5 (I bet they have those on hand) to give you the Intel iGPU (and Quick Sync capabilities). Because it's an old enough generation of iGPU, I bet gvt-g works really well for slicing up that iGPU and passing it through to your KVM VM's. Now sell 1c/2t VDS with iGPU passthrough and ~7-8GB RAM, ~1TB of RAID-10 pure SSD disk . I bet you can find people who have a use for something like that.. linux ISO compressing or something I think? Even if you were just to compare it with a normal VDS offering with those specs you're looking at a price range of $10-20/m (competitively) but the big kicker is the iGPU, high frequency on the E3 versus standard E5/scalable, and stout amount of storage space at that price point.

All-in-all I will always repeat that competing on price alone is never smart. If that is all you have, highly recommend re-thinking your approach. @Calin will kick your teeth in. Should you be price-competitive? Absolutely. There are many different types of customers, or better: many customers with different tiers of needs. A customer might only be willing to pay us 10% of what they'd pay AWS--and I can absolutely see why. It's better to identify a need and then shape a product to be competitive within that niche: locale, price, management, resources, even just general friendliness and availability.

Not_Oles · November 2023

Hi @crunchbits!

Thanks for your awesome suggestions!

@crunchbits said: Consider asking your host to swap in a E3-1245 v5 or 1275 v5 (I bet they have those on hand)

My E3s from that awesome non-US provider who must not be named have E3-1275 v5 and 64 GB. Since my awesome US Provider probably will see this comment, may I hereby please ask him, if he has these available, to substitute an E3-1275 v5 and an additional 32 GB of DDR4 ECC RAM? (It's not necessary to make an appointment before doing the swap. It's okay to just go ahead whenever. Not expecting data loss, but there is nothing on the server yet. So, even if there is total data loss, it doesn't matter. I think my Provider's ssh key might have wormed its way into the server's /root/.ssh/authorized_keys if that somehow helps. No rush at all, ever. Thank you!)

@crunchbits said: I bet gvt-g works really well for slicing up that iGPU and passing it through to your KVM VM's.

I never yet directly tried working with gvt-g and KVM. So that's definitely something I would love to try.

Thanks again for your awesome suggestions!

terrorgen · November 2023

There is a dedi provider here selling a high core count dedi for an okay price.
However disk space is not their forte.

Not_Oles · November 2023

Here are a few notes I took awhile back on getting Intel internal graphics enabled. The next step might be to get the graphics into the VPSes.

May 09 17:58:49 fsn kernel: Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-5.10.0-21-amd64 root=UUID=9f277d32-84ac-42e>
May 09 17:58:49 fsn kernel: You have booted with nomodeset. This means your GPU drivers are DISABLED
May 09 17:58:49 fsn kernel: Any video related functionality will be severely degraded, and you may not even be a>
May 09 17:58:49 fsn kernel: Unless you actually understand what nomodeset does, you should reboot without enabli>

-- Boot c499f1395c2c415caf90d137fc34de10 --
May 10 00:10:50 fsn kernel: microcode: microcode updated early to revision 0x112, date = 2022-12-19
May 10 00:10:50 fsn kernel: Linux version 6.1.0-8-amd64 ([email protected]) (gcc-12 (Debian 12.2.0->
May 10 00:10:50 fsn kernel: Command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-6.1.0-8-amd64 root=UUID=9f277d32-84ac-42e8-82a2-c2>

May 10 00:10:50 fsn kernel: Booting paravirtualized kernel on bare hardware

May 10 00:10:50 fsn kernel: Kernel command line: BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-6.1.0-8-amd64 root=UUID=9f277d32-84ac-42e8->
May 10 00:10:50 fsn kernel: Booted with the nomodeset parameter. Only the system framebuffer will be available
May 10 00:10:50 fsn kernel: Unknown kernel command line parameters "BOOT_IMAGE=/vmlinuz-6.1.0-8-amd64", will be >

--------

Enabling the iGPU on Intel Processors
https://community.hetzner.com/tutorials/howto-enable-igpu

google: fedora change nomodeset

https://www.systutorials.com/how-to-regenerate-grub2-config-file-on-linux/

https://www.systutorials.com/how-to-add-nomodeset-to-grub2-in-fedora-and-ubuntu/

root@fsn ~ # ls /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-hetzner.conf
/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-hetzner.conf
root@fsn ~ # less $_
root@fsn ~ # ls -la /dev/dri
ls: cannot access '/dev/dri': No such file or directory
root@fsn ~ # 

--------

To remove nomodeset

  297  cd /etc/default
  298  ls
  299  sudo cd grub
  300  cat grub 
  301  sudo cp -p grub grub-original-rawhide
  302  sudo vi grub # Make command line null (="")
  303  date ; sudo systemctl reboot
  304  sudo  ls -la /dev/dri
  305  dmesg | less
  306  cd /etc/default/
  307  cat grub

As root (sudo su -)

    1  cd /boot
    2  cd grub2
    3  ls
    4  ls -l
    5  cp -p grub.cfg grub.cfg-original
    6  cd /etc
    7  ls | grep grub
    8  grub2-mkconfig -o ./grub2.cfg
    9  ls -l /boot/grub2
   10  date ; systemctl reboot

[notoles@i9 ~]$ sudo  ls -la /dev/dri
[sudo] password for notoles: 
total 0
drwxr-xr-x.  3 root root        100 Jun 30 02:07 .
drwxr-xr-x. 18 root root       3900 Jun 30 02:07 ..
drwxr-xr-x.  2 root root         80 Jun 30 02:07 by-path
crw-rw----.  1 root video  226,   0 Jun 30 02:07 card0
crw-rw-rw-.  1 root render 226, 128 Jun 30 02:07 renderD128
[notoles@i9 ~]$

Not_Oles · November 2023

Update! Mysteriously, the server now seems to have E-1245 v5 and 64 GB RAM. So now I get to try RAID 0 (just for fun) and then RAID 10 across four disks. I never previously used more than two disks. Plus also I get to try gvt-g with KVM. If anyone is interested in messing with the server, please get in touch.

Not_Oles · November 2023

Updates November 17, 2023!

Server reinstalled with Fedora Rawhide and RAID 10!

[root@crunchy ~]# lsblk
NAME           MAJ:MIN RM  SIZE RO TYPE   MOUNTPOINTS
sda              8:0    0  1.9T  0 disk   
├─sda1           8:1    0    1M  0 part   
├─sda2           8:2    0    1G  0 part   
│ └─md0          9:0    0 1022M  0 raid1  /boot
└─sda3           8:3    0  1.9T  0 part   
  └─md1          9:1    0  3.7T  0 raid10 
    ├─vg0-root 253:0    0  3.7T  0 lvm    /
    └─vg0-swap 253:1    0    4G  0 lvm    [SWAP]
sdb              8:16   0  1.9T  0 disk   
├─sdb1           8:17   0    1M  0 part   
├─sdb2           8:18   0    1G  0 part   
│ └─md0          9:0    0 1022M  0 raid1  /boot
└─sdb3           8:19   0  1.9T  0 part   
  └─md1          9:1    0  3.7T  0 raid10 
    ├─vg0-root 253:0    0  3.7T  0 lvm    /
    └─vg0-swap 253:1    0    4G  0 lvm    [SWAP]
sdc              8:32   0  1.9T  0 disk   
├─sdc1           8:33   0    1M  0 part   
├─sdc2           8:34   0    1G  0 part   
│ └─md0          9:0    0 1022M  0 raid1  /boot
└─sdc3           8:35   0  1.9T  0 part   
  └─md1          9:1    0  3.7T  0 raid10 
    ├─vg0-root 253:0    0  3.7T  0 lvm    /
    └─vg0-swap 253:1    0    4G  0 lvm    [SWAP]
sdd              8:48   0  1.9T  0 disk   
├─sdd1           8:49   0    1M  0 part   
├─sdd2           8:50   0    1G  0 part   
│ └─md0          9:0    0 1022M  0 raid1  /boot
└─sdd3           8:51   0  1.9T  0 part   
  └─md1          9:1    0  3.7T  0 raid10 
    ├─vg0-root 253:0    0  3.7T  0 lvm    /
    └─vg0-swap 253:1    0    4G  0 lvm    [SWAP]
zram0          252:0    0    8G  0 disk   [SWAP]
[root@crunchy ~]#

Graphics processor seems to be working!

[root@crunchy ~]# ls -alR /dev/dri
/dev/dri:
total 0
drwxr-xr-x  3 root root        120 Nov 17 04:15 .
drwxr-xr-x 21 root root       4360 Nov 17 04:15 ..
drwxr-xr-x  2 root root        100 Nov 17 04:15 by-path
crw-rw----  1 root video  226,   0 Nov 17 04:15 card0
crw-rw----  1 root video  226,   1 Nov 17 04:15 card1
crw-rw-rw-  1 root render 226, 128 Nov 17 04:15 renderD128

/dev/dri/by-path:
total 0
drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 100 Nov 17 04:15 .
drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 120 Nov 17 04:15 ..
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   8 Nov 17 04:15 pci-0000:00:02.0-card -> ../card1
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root  13 Nov 17 04:15 pci-0000:00:02.0-render -> ../renderD128
lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root   8 Nov 17 04:15 pci-0000:05:00.0-card -> ../card0
[root@crunchy ~]#

Routed IPv6/48 from HE!

My first time using HE TunnelBroker, but the tunnel seems to work out of the box. I wonder what are the disadvantages of the HE tunnel? Also, the server is expecting an IPv6/64 from the extremely premium and cool US-based provider. Anybody got a good idea how to get an IPv4/29?

[root@crunchy /]# date -u
Fri Nov 17 08:13:49 PM UTC 2023
[root@crunchy /]# ping6 -c 2 icanhazip.com
PING icanhazip.com(2606:4700::6812:7261 (2606:4700::6812:7261)) 56 data bytes
64 bytes from 2606:4700::6812:7261 (2606:4700::6812:7261): icmp_seq=1 ttl=60 time=11.9 ms
64 bytes from 2606:4700::6812:7261 (2606:4700::6812:7261): icmp_seq=2 ttl=60 time=14.3 ms

--- icanhazip.com ping statistics ---
2 packets transmitted, 2 received, 0% packet loss, time 1002ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 11.875/13.071/14.267/1.196 ms
[root@crunchy /]#

What should the BF offer be? Still looking for more ideas! Thanks!

root · November 2023

@Not_Oles said:
What should the BF offer be? Still looking for more ideas! Thanks!

Connect it through some VPN like NordVPN (no advertising intended) to not break DMCA as the server has just one IPv4, then sell small VPS with lots of storage and template for seedbox preconfigured (just like @PulsedMedia does but through VPN).

For some reason people still like torrenting, so specialised offers should sell. After all @PulsedMedia is a success for going on this market.

babywhale · November 2023

WOAH NICE! i use HE tunnels on my IPv4 only vps's and i find that latency is a little higher but that should be expected. just make sure to pick a location near the location of the server

Otus9051 · November 2023

@Not_Oles Where is the server at? I would like to route you a /48 just for the hell of it. The tunnel will be at Kansas City, MO.

Not_Oles · November 2023

@babywhale said: just make sure to pick a location near the location of the server

@Not_Oles said:

rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 11.875/13.071/14.267/1.196 ms

Not too bad, I guess.

sh97 · November 2023

@Otus9051 said:
@Not_Oles Where is the server at? I would like to route you a /48 just for the hell of it. The tunnel will be at Kansas City, MO.

It's at Liberty Lake, WA.

Not_Oles · November 2023

@Otus9051 said:
@Not_Oles Where is the server at? I would like to route you a /48 just for the hell of it. The tunnel will be at Kansas City, MO.

Welp, if I say exactly where the server is, then I might give away the still secret identity of the extremely premium and cool US provider who beat [Redacted] a/k/a The Provider Who Must Not Be Named. 😸

So, with the above constraints on mind, maybe I can hint that the server is nestled in the premier datacenter of a US State well known for being the Microsoft HQ location.

I'm not ready to disclose the IP address just yet. Thanks so much, though, for your nice IPv6 offer, which I do appreciate! 👍Maybe we can try your routing a little bit more down the road. Best wishes! 🙂

Not_Oles · November 2023

@sh97 said:

@Otus9051 said:
@Not_Oles Where is the server at? I would like to route you a /48 just for the hell of it. The tunnel will be at Kansas City, MO.

It's at Liberty Lake, WA.

@suh Haha! You posted while I was writing my reply. 😂

Otus9051 · November 2023

@sh97 said:

@Otus9051 said:
@Not_Oles Where is the server at? I would like to route you a /48 just for the hell of it. The tunnel will be at Kansas City, MO.

It's at Liberty Lake, WA.

If its connected to Cogent/Arelion, the BGP Path would be small enough. I am guessing about 10ms ping.

sh97 · November 2023

@Not_Oles said:

@sh97 said:

@Otus9051 said:
@Not_Oles Where is the server at? I would like to route you a /48 just for the hell of it. The tunnel will be at Kansas City, MO.

It's at Liberty Lake, WA.

@suh Haha! You posted while I was writing my reply. 😂

Oops! Sorry about that.
Also if you want I can also give you a /48 to play with, you can ask the premium operator to announce it on their network.

yoursunny · November 2023

@Not_Oles said:
How could a BF offer be structured so as to sell out and reimburse the cost of the server? Even without profit, it seems impossible to match existing offers.

Impossible to match.
Existing offers are priced down because provider has large scale and lower amortized cost.

@crunchbits said:
Consider asking your host to swap in a E3-1245 v5 or 1275 v5 (I bet they have those on hand) to give you the Intel iGPU (and Quick Sync capabilities).

Plot twist: it's your machine.
We all know Liberty Lake is possessed by crunchy.
Incog has colo but an instantaneous CPU swap won't happen.

@Otus9051 said:
@Not_Oles Where is the server at? I would like to route you a /48 just for the hell of it. The tunnel will be at Kansas City, MO.

If the above guess is correct, crunchy has native BGP for dedicated servers.

Not_Oles · November 2023

@crunchbits said: I bet gvt-g works really well for slicing up that iGPU and passing it through to your KVM VM's.

Google found:

Please help formulate MetalVPS BF Offers! Thanks!

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