Free LES Community Server from Hosteroid via MetalVPS!

Not_Oles · August 10

Does anyone here at LES want to join @cmeerw and me?

Thanks to @Hosteroid for hlcs!

avsisp · August 11

Wow - what a great deal. That's really awesome. Free shell accounts used to be really popular and all - but with new generation kind of died out. Glad to see someone still offering them

cmeerw · August 11

One thing I'd like to try is how NetBSD fares with tilemaker, but with most of the disk space already occupied by Debian and OpenBSD I'll need to get some more space for NetBSD. One option is to just mount the OpenBSD file system under NetBSD and use that, hoping it's actually really the same file system. It seems to work for light read-only usage, but not sure if it could corrupt the OpenBSD partition under heavy load. @Not_Oles okay with you to take that risk?

Not_Oles · August 11

@cmeerw

The purpose of the server is to have fun. So, yeah, sure, whatever you want.

As you certainly know, another option might be to remove the Debian and the OpenBSD installations and just go with NetBSD. But, however you want to proceed is fine with me.

After things settle down a little, no rush, I might want to start compiling NetBSD-current, if that would be okay with you. Maybe (probably!) you can show me a better method after I post how I am doing the compiling now. Also, I wonder about testing network performance and, if needed, optimizing network speed.

Best!

Tom

Thanks to Hosteroid for our lovely server!

Thanks to @cmeerw for awesome system administration!

cmeerw · August 11

@Not_Oles said: Also, I wonder about testing network performance and, if needed, optimizing network speed.

Good point, I have actually already adjusted a few settings (mostly based on https://wiki.netbsd.org/tutorials/tuning_netbsd_for_performance/)

kern.sbmax=4194304

net.inet.tcp.init_win=10
net.inet.tcp.init_win_local=10
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_inc=65536
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_max=4194304
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_inc=32768
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_max=4194304

net.local.stream.sendspace=32768
net.local.stream.recvspace=32768

Not_Oles · August 11

NetBSD and Linux are running on some VPSes that I have at several providers.

With one provider, I noticed that the network seemed slower on one NetBSD install than on a comparable Linux install. I wondered why, even after I applied the optimizations at https://wiki.netbsd.org/tutorials/tuning_netbsd_for_performance/ .

I haven't had a chance to look into this as much, as slowly, and as carefully as I would like.

To be clear, the NetBSD install works fine, it's just a little slower, and I expected it to be a little faster.

Most likely I made mistakes in the setup!

cmeerw · August 12

Tried that tilemaker job, and it ran fine, time -l showed:

     7149.09 real     45172.03 user       776.01 sys
  29768992  maximum resident set size
         0  average shared memory size
         0  average unshared data size
         0  average unshared stack size
  43759591  page reclaims
  14855914  page faults
         0  swaps
       338  block input operations
     40218  block output operations
         0  messages sent
         0  messages received
         0  signals received
  17824606  voluntary context switches
   7194575  involuntary context switches

That looks pretty similar to what it took on Linux

Not_Oles · August 12

Do you plan to serve the map on http(s)?

cmeerw · August 12

@Not_Oles said:
Do you plan to serve the map on http(s)?

Yes, just need to set up the web server part for that on NetBSD.

Not_Oles · August 12

Excellent!

cmeerw · August 13

@Not_Oles said:
Do you plan to serve the map on http(s)?

Here is the map of Europe (installed lighttpd as the web server with my FastCGI backend)

Not_Oles · August 13

@cmeerw said:

@Not_Oles said:
Do you plan to serve the map on http(s)?

Here is the map of Europe (installed lighttpd as the web server with my FastCGI backend)

Awesome! I will have to go look inside at what you did. I am sure I can learn something!

FWIW, here in Mexico, on Chrome in my Duet 5 Chromebook, a part of the rendering seems faster than it was on OpenBSD, another part seems about the same. What happens appears to be in two steps: an initial "wait" with no rendering (maybe about the same elapsed time period between OpenBSD and NetBSD), then the "rendering step," where rendering starts and more slowly (OpenBSD) orr more quickly (NetBSD) moves across the screen.

In a practical sense it doesn't make any real difference, maybe about a second.

I think you changed other things besides just the OS, so the OS difference may not be a cause of any of the small difference that I imagine I might be seeing.

Are you a fan of lighthttpd and FastCGI? When, if at all, would you move from that stack to something else, and what would the something else be?

If somebody else here wants to join the server and maybe be able to see and learn from what @cmeerw did, you would be more than welcome!

Thanks again to @Hosteroid for the lovely server!

cmeerw · August 13

@Not_Oles said:

@cmeerw said:

@Not_Oles said:
Do you plan to serve the map on http(s)?

Here is the map of Europe (installed lighttpd as the web server with my FastCGI backend)

Awesome! I will have to go look inside at what you did. I am sure I can learn something!

FWIW, here in Mexico, on Chrome in my Duet 5 Chromebook, a part of the rendering seems faster than it was on OpenBSD, another part seems about the same. What happens appears to be in two steps: an initial "wait" with no rendering (maybe about the same elapsed time period between OpenBSD and NetBSD), then the "rendering step," where rendering starts and more slowly (OpenBSD) orr more quickly (NetBSD) moves across the screen.

The initial wait is probably because it takes time to load the Javascript library loaded and started up (it's almost a MB of Javascript).

In a practical sense it doesn't make any real difference, maybe about a second.

I think you changed other things besides just the OS, so the OS difference may not be a cause of any of the small difference that I imagine I might be seeing.

On OpenBSD I used their built-in httpd as the web server - one difference could be that httpd only supports HTTP/1.1, but lighttpd also supports HTTP/2.0.

Are you a fan of lighthttpd and FastCGI? When, if at all, would you move from that stack to something else, and what would the something else be?

I think the other option would be nginx, but at the time I moved from Apache to lighttpd, it was similar to nginx (probably more mature than nginx), and never had a reason to move away from it.

The good thing about FastCGI is that it is somewhat simpler to parse than HTTP and thereby avoids the request smuggling issues with HTTP (which would be the other, and more popular option nowadays).

Not_Oles · August 14

@cmeew I looked around a little.

I did ls in /home and in /usr/pkg/etc plus /usr/pkg/etc/lighthttpd.

Is it okay for me to look deeply inside?

It's fine either way.

I never used lighthttpd before, so it's interesting to me.

Also, while I am making trouble, do we want to compile and run -current? I am doing that elsewhere, redundantly, so it's not like I need to do it on hlcs.

Since not too many LESbians seem super excited about joining, do we want to post about the availability of this fine server on one of the NetBSD mailing lists? Maybe some of the NetBSD guys might want to join LES and join hlcs?

Thanks @Hosteroid! Lovely server! @cmeerw and I are enjoying it very much!

Does anyone else want to join? Please check the "How To Apply" section in the OP.

cmeerw · August 16

@Not_Oles said:
@cmeew I looked around a little.

I did ls in /home and in /usr/pkg/etc plus /usr/pkg/etc/lighthttpd.

Is it okay for me to look deeply inside?

Sure, but the set up will still need a few tweaks to automatically start up after a reboot, and the certificate renewal needs to be set up (usually using acme-tiny for that)

It's fine either way.

I never used lighthttpd before, so it's interesting to me.

Also, while I am making trouble, do we want to compile and run -current? I am doing that elsewhere, redundantly, so it's not like I need to do it on hlcs.

We could, we just need more disk space for the NetBSD partition. I think we can retire OpenBSD and use that space for NetBSD.

Since not too many LESbians seem super excited about joining, do we want to post about the availability of this fine server on one of the NetBSD mailing lists? Maybe some of the NetBSD guys might want to join LES and join hlcs?

Could do that as well - I guess it's a fine line of what to promise and setting the right expectations.

Not_Oles · August 16

Thanks @cmeerw!

On the table for discussion at the moment are at least:

your nice lighthttpd and map install -- I need to take a look
the LBA[1] filesystem install that you set up -- I need to look more
running NetBSD-current
retiring OpenBSD on this server, for the moment, to free up more space
a few more users, hopefully LESbians, but maybe also from NetBSD.org

Maybe, instead of nudging for additional changes, I could use more time on hlcs the way it is right now to address the first two items on the list.

I might be a bit extra slow right now.
As a learning exercise, I'm writing minimal login pages in PHP and in Javascript. I'm reading some of the FOSSBilling code. I'm compiling NetBSD-current on a test VPS. If the test passes, then my daily driver VPS also gets compiled on NetBSD-current.
Three server nodes already are going for FOSSVPS, which I hear is about to receive several additional server donations.
I'm adding inventory at the various locations to the FOSSVPS website.
A friend with whom I am sharing a VPS is introducing me to XMPP.

[1] Logical Block Addressing -- Allows change of OSes and partitions from inside the server.

cmeerw · August 17

@Not_Oles said: your nice lighthttpd and map install -- I need to take a look

Just did some work on this so it properly restarts on a server reboot.

The LE certificate is now managed via acme-tiny in /var/lib/acme-tiny with a cron job in /etc/crontab (and update and restart scripts in /usr/local/bin/acme-tiny-update.sh and /usr/local/bin/acme-tiny-restart.sh)

I have also modified /etc/rc.d/lighttpd to also create /var/run/lighttpd (for the FastCGI Unix domain sockets) - and my map server is started via a @reboot cron job (under my user).

somik · August 17

Why not start it using the systemd instead?

cmeerw · August 17

@somik said:
Why not start it using the systemd instead?

There is no systemd on NetBSD.

somik · August 18

@cmeerw said:

@somik said:
Why not start it using the systemd instead?

There is no systemd on NetBSD.

Yes, but it does use /etc/rc.conf to define startup applications, and since you already added the file to /etc/rc.d/lighttpd you can set it to run on bootup with a simple lighttpd=YES in your rc.conf file.

cmeerw · August 18

@somik said:

@cmeerw said:

@somik said:
Why not start it using the systemd instead?

There is no systemd on NetBSD.

Yes, but it does use /etc/rc.conf to define startup applications, and since you already added the file to /etc/rc.d/lighttpd you can set it to run on bootup with a simple lighttpd=YES in your rc.conf file.

Yes, and that's what I am doing for lighttpd itself.

The part I am not starting via /etc/rc.d is the FastCGI application - this one doesn't have any of the daemonize/setuid functionality built in, so just using a @reboot cron job is the easiest option.

somik · August 19

@cmeerw said:

@somik said:

@cmeerw said:

@somik said:
Why not start it using the systemd instead?

There is no systemd on NetBSD.

Yes, but it does use /etc/rc.conf to define startup applications, and since you already added the file to /etc/rc.d/lighttpd you can set it to run on bootup with a simple lighttpd=YES in your rc.conf file.

Yes, and that's what I am doing for lighttpd itself.

The part I am not starting via /etc/rc.d is the FastCGI application - this one doesn't have any of the daemonize/setuid functionality built in, so just using a @reboot cron job is the easiest option.

Ah, yes, the fastcgi runs separately in lighttpd, but from what I remember, lighttpd has a mod to startup the php's fastcgi application on lighttpd's bootup. So you enable the fastcgi and fastcgi-pho mods and they start up together.

sudo lighttpd-enable-mod fastcgi
sudo lighttpd-enable-mod fastcgi-php

FYI, you do have to change the fastcgi config (which I am sure you already did) to ensure fastcgi runs as www-data and not root user.

cmeerw · August 19

@somik said:

@cmeerw said:

@somik said:

@cmeerw said:

@somik said:
Why not start it using the systemd instead?

There is no systemd on NetBSD.

Yes, but it does use /etc/rc.conf to define startup applications, and since you already added the file to /etc/rc.d/lighttpd you can set it to run on bootup with a simple lighttpd=YES in your rc.conf file.

Yes, and that's what I am doing for lighttpd itself.

The part I am not starting via /etc/rc.d is the FastCGI application - this one doesn't have any of the daemonize/setuid functionality built in, so just using a @reboot cron job is the easiest option.

Ah, yes, the fastcgi runs separately in lighttpd, but from what I remember, lighttpd has a mod to startup the php's fastcgi application on lighttpd's bootup. So you enable the fastcgi and fastcgi-pho mods and they start up together.
sudo lighttpd-enable-mod fastcgi
sudo lighttpd-enable-mod fastcgi-php
FYI, you do have to change the fastcgi config (which I am sure you already did) to ensure fastcgi runs as www-data and not root user.

Yes, lighttpd could be used to start the fastcgi program - but as you say that is limited to running the fastcgi program as the same user as lighttpd, which I try not to do (ideally, I should create a separate user for the fastcgi program - but for convenience I haven't done that yet, and just run it under my user account).

AFAIK, lighttpd-enable-mod is a Debian thing (at least it's not something that comes with lighttpd). And my fastcgi program is not PHP based - it's written in C++.

BTW, on Linux (on my more production-like set up) I am actually running each fastcgi application as its own user, and further restricting what it can do by putting it into its own namespace (using bwrap), but that's not something NetBSD supports (yet). But I really think a fastcgi application should be separated from the web server process as much as possible.

Not_Oles · August 20

hlcs# ls -lh /usr/pkg/sbin/lighttpd
-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  328K Jul  1 22:11 /usr/pkg/sbin/lighttpd
hlcs#

root@vm1:~# uname -a
Linux vm1 6.1.0-37-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.140-1 (2025-05-22) x86_64 GNU/Linux
root@vm1:~# ls -lh /usr/sbin/apache2
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 713K Oct  4  2024 /usr/sbin/apache2
root@vm1:~#

Googling suggests that Lighttpd is fast for static files. But Lighttpd does work with PHP.
-- Setting up PHP with Lighttpd

"We have nothing to hide, so please use our bugtracker for all kinds of bugs."

Issue tracking

type	open	closed	Total
Bug	0	2222	2222
Feature	0	736	736

-- Lighttpd Overview

hlcs# pwd
/usr/pkg/share/doc/lighttpd
hlcs# ls
access.txt          extforward.txt      proxy.txt           ssl.txt
accesslog.txt       fastcgi-state.dot   redirect.txt        state.dot
alias.txt           fastcgi-state.txt   rewrite.txt         state.txt
authentication.txt  fastcgi.txt         rrdtool.txt         status.txt
cgi.txt             features.txt        scgi.txt            traffic-shaping.txt
compress.txt        magnet.txt          security.txt        userdir.txt
configuration.txt   newstyle.css        setenv.txt          webdav.txt
dirlisting.txt      oldstyle.css        simple-vhost.txt
evhost.txt          performance.txt     skeleton.txt
expire.txt          plugins.txt         ssi.txt
hlcs#

mizzik · August 20

@Not_Oles I think you should combine all your offers into a single thread

somik · August 20

@mizzik said:
@Not_Oles I think you should combine all your offers into a single thread

Speaking of that, what are the differences in the offers? (sorry if i missed it)

Not_Oles · August 20

@mizzik said: combine all your offers into a single thread

Yes, maybe there are too many threads.

This offer is different than all the others because it is the only one that requests personal ID in the OP.

@somik said: what are the differences in the offers?

Thanks for asking!

You can see the FOSSVPS offers listed, with specs, locations, and inventory, on the FOSSVPS website.

The MetalVPS offers are listed on the MetalVPS website.

All the FOSSVPS offers are free. Some of the MetalVPS offers are free.

cmeerw · August 26

@Not_Oles said:
* retiring OpenBSD on this server, for the moment, to free up more space

that's something I am planning to do soon.

bronxies · August 27

Hi, any free server for me? thanks

Not_Oles · August 27

Hi @bronxies! Welcome to LES! Please read the How To Apply section in the OP. Thanks!

Free LES Community Server from Hosteroid via MetalVPS!

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