@somik said:
I got no idea how you guys are browsing LES as cloudflare singapore was down and so was LES, which is behind the cloudflare proxy...
Eh come again?
Not today, yesterday when the thread was opened. Could not open LES. Was getting cloudflare 500 error.
eh? what? LES never dies!!!
LES did die, because Cloudflare died, but was resuscitated. We have these admins here on LES who just can't ditch Cloudflare. Maybe @Mason and @mikho consider that LES really needs Cloudflare for some reason.
Sucks when it happens like that, but the other 99.99% of the time it's flawless.
Find me an alternative that works just as well as CF with similar or better uptime and I'll consider switching. The internet is a dirty place and CF gives out free condoms... so I'm wrapping it up!
All you have to do is just look at the provider polls. Some ideas: NameCrane, Servarica, Gigahost. You can also go with big providers, such as Hetzner.
If you really want a content delivery network (even though LES might not actually need one) but if you really and absolutely want one, I am sure BunnyCDN can come up with a small solution, especially since Black Friday is right around the corner. You can even put their small logo in the footer of this forum for your peace of mind and maybe get it for free. But I honestly believe this forum does not need a CDN.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I don't like using condoms. I personally prefer other ways of protection.
CF is more than just CDN (LES isn't trying to sell stuff before you can think so that one second longer page load time makes anyone worried).
It's also more than just a firewall.
Especially around Black Friday madness thread(s). LOL
It isn't perfect, but even with a very high budget (and good experts for hire), I don't think we'd be able to get the same quality with alternative systems (and I also doubt we'd have the same, not to mention better uptime).
Of course, those poor sobs at CF decrypt all the packets and must watch all the sexy pigeon pics I DM to @AuroraZero - but they chose such career, I didn't force 'em...
Then it might be the perfect moment for Cloudflare to discontinue the free service. Many from free plans will stay and pay.
Or they might continue on this path, and target for 50% of internet reliant on them.
I reserve the right to license all of my content under: CC BY-NC-ND. Whatever happens on this forum should stay on this forum.
@somik said:
I got no idea how you guys are browsing LES as cloudflare singapore was down and so was LES, which is behind the cloudflare proxy...
Eh come again?
Not today, yesterday when the thread was opened. Could not open LES. Was getting cloudflare 500 error.
eh? what? LES never dies!!!
LES did die, because Cloudflare died, but was resuscitated. We have these admins here on LES who just can't ditch Cloudflare. Maybe @Mason and @mikho consider that LES really needs Cloudflare for some reason.
Sucks when it happens like that, but the other 99.99% of the time it's flawless.
Find me an alternative that works just as well as CF with similar or better uptime and I'll consider switching. The internet is a dirty place and CF gives out free condoms... so I'm wrapping it up!
All you have to do is just look at the provider polls. Some ideas: NameCrane, Servarica, Gigahost. You can also go with big providers, such as Hetzner.
If you really want a content delivery network (even though LES might not actually need one) but if you really and absolutely want one, I am sure BunnyCDN can come up with a small solution, especially since Black Friday is right around the corner. You can even put their small logo in the footer of this forum for your peace of mind and maybe get it for free. But I honestly believe this forum does not need a CDN.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I don't like using condoms. I personally prefer other ways of protection.
CF is more than just CDN (LES isn't trying to sell stuff before you can think so that one second longer page load time makes anyone worried).
It's also more than just a firewall.
Especially around Black Friday madness thread(s). LOL
It isn't perfect, but even with a very high budget (and good experts for hire), I don't think we'd be able to get the same quality with alternative systems (and I also doubt we'd have the same, not to mention better uptime).
Of course, those poor sobs at CF decrypt all the packets and must watch all the sexy pigeon pics I DM to @AuroraZero - but they chose such career, I didn't force 'em...
Then it might be the perfect moment for Cloudflare to discontinue the free service. Many from free plans will stay and pay.
Or they might continue on this path, and target for 50% of internet treliant on them.
Money is just a tool to get more control (and surveilance), and resources, without people getting suspicious or resisting.
It doesn’t really matter nor really exist for that matter (pun intended).
LES stack choice won’t alter that outcome in any way. But we would get worse situation without CF at this time AFAIK.
@somik said:
I got no idea how you guys are browsing LES as cloudflare singapore was down and so was LES, which is behind the cloudflare proxy...
Eh come again?
Not today, yesterday when the thread was opened. Could not open LES. Was getting cloudflare 500 error.
eh? what? LES never dies!!!
LES did die, because Cloudflare died, but was resuscitated. We have these admins here on LES who just can't ditch Cloudflare. Maybe @Mason and @mikho consider that LES really needs Cloudflare for some reason.
Sucks when it happens like that, but the other 99.99% of the time it's flawless.
Find me an alternative that works just as well as CF with similar or better uptime and I'll consider switching. The internet is a dirty place and CF gives out free condoms... so I'm wrapping it up!
All you have to do is just look at the provider polls. Some ideas: NameCrane, Servarica, Gigahost. You can also go with big providers, such as Hetzner.
If you really want a content delivery network (even though LES might not actually need one) but if you really and absolutely want one, I am sure BunnyCDN can come up with a small solution, especially since Black Friday is right around the corner. You can even put their small logo in the footer of this forum for your peace of mind and maybe get it for free. But I honestly believe this forum does not need a CDN.
EDIT: I forgot to mention that I don't like using condoms. I personally prefer other ways of protection.
CF is more than just CDN (LES isn't trying to sell stuff before you can think so that one second longer page load time makes anyone worried).
It's also more than just a firewall.
Especially around Black Friday madness thread(s). LOL
It isn't perfect, but even with a very high budget (and good experts for hire), I don't think we'd be able to get the same quality with alternative systems (and I also doubt we'd have the same, not to mention better uptime).
Of course, those poor sobs at CF decrypt all the packets and must watch all the sexy pigeon pics I DM to @AuroraZero - but they chose such career, I didn't force 'em...
Then it might be the perfect moment for Cloudflare to discontinue the free service. Many from free plans will stay and pay.
Or they might continue on this path, and target for 50% of internet treliant on them.
Money is just a tool to get more control (and surveilance), and resources, without people getting suspicious or resisting.
It doesn’t really matter nor really exist for that matter (pun intended).
LES stack choice won’t alter that outcome in any way. But we would get worse situation without CF at this time AFAIK.
I certainly disagree. We are on a technical forum. We can find solutions. Raising your hands up and going with a big corporation in giving up is not the right path, certainly not for a small low-end technical forum. I feel really sad for you, because you're a moderator here and you're giving up so easily.
I reserve the right to license all of my content under: CC BY-NC-ND. Whatever happens on this forum should stay on this forum.
May I please ask what does LES get from Cloudflare that is more thæn CDN + firewall? Thanks!
Blocks bots, prevents DDoS attacks, reduces server load during heavy traffic, provides IPv4 + IPv6 access, provides end to end encryption (client to CF, CF to server).
If you want information, feign ignorance reply with the wrong answer. Internet people will correct you ASAP!
It’s OK if you disagree with me. I can’t force you to be right!
LES team is tirelessly working on building our own TLS authority and renewal service - and are already lobbying for it to become accepted, globally, since it wouldn't work otherwise. No more relying on the centralized Let's Encrypt!
The working title, of course, is "LES Encrypt" - but once we hit our first billion in Patreon donations we'll hire some marketing folks to come up with a better idea.
Oh, did I say Patreon. Fuck Patreon... and Paypal... Stripe.
We're starting our own, independent, non-corporate payment processor, with all the needed security and approvals that come with it. Striking back at the core of the empire (don't get me started on the coal and gas power burning useless and inefficient crypto - that's for losers!).
Working title is "Yetibucks" but we're open to suggestions.
While we're at it, there's no use to rely on Chrome or the Google-sponsored Firefox.
"Pigeon Shift" is the working title - it will be the fastest, the most secure, and the most independent browser you've ever seen, without an IOS app because we will boycott the Apple corporation (that goes without saying).
We are also trying to make it refuse to run on any Apple, Dell or HP-built hardware, but we're having some privacy concerns there... just putting a pin in that for now.
Now where was I? Right - Cloudflare.
Of course this is all in vain without our own infrastructure, data centres and other stuff - decentralize to the core or go home is what I say!
Give us another decade or two and marvel at our success!
All with zero budget, in our free time - as it should be.
Stay tuned.
Edit - for extra irony points - my stuff (where it's 100% my call):
I did seriously consider ditching it a few weeks before this major outage - but concluded that keeping it is the less bad option. I still think it was the least-bad call.
LES team is tirelessly working on building our own TLS authority and renewal service - and are already lobbying for it to become accepted, globally, since it wouldn't work otherwise. No more relying on the centralized Let's Encrypt!
The working title, of course, is "LES Encrypt" - but once we hit our first billion in Patreon donations we'll hire some marketing folks to come up with a better idea.
Oh, did I say Patreon. Fuck Patreon... and Paypal... Stripe.
We're starting our own, independent, non-corporate payment processor, with all the needed security and approvals that come with it. Striking back at the core of the empire (don't get me started on the coal and gas power burning useless and inefficient crypto - that's for losers!).
Working title is "Yetibucks" but we're open to suggestions.
While we're at it, there's no use to rely on Chrome or the Google-sponsored Firefox.
"Pigeon Shift" is the working title - it will be the fastest, the most secure, and the most independent browser you've ever seen, without an IOS app because we will boycott the Apple corporation (that goes without saying).
We are also trying to make it refuse to run on any Apple, Dell or HP-built hardware, but we're having some privacy concerns there... just putting a pin in that for now.
Now where was I? Right - Cloudflare.
Of course this is all in vain without our own infrastructure, data centres and other stuff - decentralize to the core or go home is what I say!
Give us another decade or two and marvel at our success!
All with zero budget, in our free time - as it should be.
Stay tuned.
Edit - for extra irony points - my stuff (where it's 100% my call):
I did seriously consider ditching it a few weeks before this major outage - but concluded that keeping it is the less bad option. I still think it was the least-bad call.
Okay after this detailed and highly technical explanation I am out.
May I please ask what does LES get from Cloudflare that is more than CDN + firewall? Thanks!
The main reason we use CF is that it provides a FREE and effective protective layer since it proxies all connections and provides web app firewall + DDoS and bot/malicious request protection as a result of that. Nobody can connect directly to our Hetzner VPS running the site, which immensely lessens any potential attack vectors and surfaces. (If anyone is able to derive the real IP of this site, please let me know so we can patch that up)
Another huge benefit CF provides is that it's a one stop shop for all the goodies you'd ever want for web hosting. So while we're mostly using it for protection, we also get CDN, analytics, web request filtering/controls, end-to-end encryption, and a bunch of other bells and whistles.
Besides being free, the ease of using the service is another big reason that it'd be hard to convince me to leave. All of these features are being provided by a single platform that is essentially "set and forget" and requires next to zero time to manage or maintain. If I had to migrate and pay for these individual services for LES and also maintain them, then I'd be losing my mind more than I already am and uptime would most likely be in the toilet.
May I please ask what does LES get from Cloudflare that is more than CDN + firewall? Thanks!
The main reason we use CF is that it provides a FREE and effective protective layer since it proxies all connections and provides web app firewall + DDoS and bot/malicious request protection as a result of that. Nobody can connect directly to our Hetzner VPS running the site, which immensely lessens any potential attack vectors and surfaces. (If anyone is able to derive the real IP of this site, please let me know so we can patch that up)
Another huge benefit CF provides is that it's a one stop shop for all the goodies you'd ever want for web hosting. So while we're mostly using it for protection, we also get CDN, analytics, web request filtering/controls, end-to-end encryption, and a bunch of other bells and whistles.
Besides being free, the ease of using the service is another big reason that it'd be hard to convince me to leave. All of these features are being provided by a single platform that is essentially "set and forget" and requires next to zero time to manage or maintain. If I had to migrate and pay for these individual services for LES and also maintain them, then I'd be losing my mind more than I already am and uptime would most likely be in the toilet.
Let me see if I can improve my thinking about Cloudflare by changing
Cloudflare
CDN
firewall
to
Cloudflare
CDN
firewall
reverse proxy
layer 7 web app filter
DDoS protection
bot / malicious request protection
analytics
web request filtering/controls
end-to-end encryption
+FREE
+Single platform (all that's needed in a one-stop shop)
+Easy to set up, near zero time to manage.
Let me see if I can improve my thinking about Cloudflare by changing
Cloudflare
CDN
firewall
to
Cloudflare
CDN
firewall
reverse proxy
layer 7 web app filter
DDoS protection
bot / malicious request protection
analytics
web request filtering/controls
end-to-end encryption
+FREE
+Single platform (all that's needed in a one-stop shop)
+Easy to set up, near zero time to manage.
Also, on top of that, for real end-to-end encryption, you still need a valid certificate on your hosting server (that CF then uses to communicate with your server).
But it is fairly set-and-forget and when configured properly it does provide effectively end-to-end encryption.
To get that kind of service quality would take a lot of money and energy (I mean all the goodies that CF provides - "for free").
Yes, we are the product, it doesn't do it for our sake - but that's the modern world (and Internet).
Those problems won't be solved by messing with one forum.
So the answer of technical guys passionate about computers and servers is: use Cloudflare. The very same answer could be given by a teenager going to high school these days.
I honestly expected more from this forum. I expected other solutions and standing up for the sake of technology, self-hosting, and passion towards providers. Instead I see a bunch of [...] raising the white flag and calling it a day.
The end is truly nigh. I shall invite myself out of such complacent thread. I believe in more than this; I want to believe. There are so many providers around here, and you keep choosing Cloudflare. Feel free to use Cloudflare and thank them as much as you wish.
Comments
Then it might be the perfect moment for Cloudflare to discontinue the free service. Many from free plans will stay and pay.
Or they might continue on this path, and target for 50% of internet reliant on them.
I reserve the right to license all of my content under: CC BY-NC-ND. Whatever happens on this forum should stay on this forum.
Money is just a tool to get more control (and surveilance), and resources, without people getting suspicious or resisting.
It doesn’t really matter nor really exist for that matter (pun intended).
LES stack choice won’t alter that outcome in any way. But we would get worse situation without CF at this time AFAIK.
🔧 BikeGremlin guides & resources
I certainly disagree. We are on a technical forum. We can find solutions. Raising your hands up and going with a big corporation in giving up is not the right path, certainly not for a small low-end technical forum. I feel really sad for you, because you're a moderator here and you're giving up so easily.
I reserve the right to license all of my content under: CC BY-NC-ND. Whatever happens on this forum should stay on this forum.
May I please ask what does LES get from Cloudflare that is more than CDN + firewall? Thanks!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
I reserve the right to license all of my content under: CC BY-NC-ND. Whatever happens on this forum should stay on this forum.
Blocks bots, prevents DDoS attacks, reduces server load during heavy traffic, provides IPv4 + IPv6 access, provides end to end encryption (client to CF, CF to server).
I dont remember anything else cloudflare does...
If you want information, feign ignorance reply with the wrong answer. Internet people will correct you ASAP!
It’s OK if you disagree with me. I can’t force you to be right!
And the wine!
LES team is tirelessly working on building our own TLS authority and renewal service - and are already lobbying for it to become accepted, globally, since it wouldn't work otherwise. No more relying on the centralized Let's Encrypt!
The working title, of course, is "LES Encrypt" - but once we hit our first billion in Patreon donations we'll hire some marketing folks to come up with a better idea.
Oh, did I say Patreon. Fuck Patreon... and Paypal... Stripe.
We're starting our own, independent, non-corporate payment processor, with all the needed security and approvals that come with it. Striking back at the core of the empire (don't get me started on the coal and gas power burning useless and inefficient crypto - that's for losers!).
Working title is "Yetibucks" but we're open to suggestions.
While we're at it, there's no use to rely on Chrome or the Google-sponsored Firefox.
"Pigeon Shift" is the working title - it will be the fastest, the most secure, and the most independent browser you've ever seen, without an IOS app because we will boycott the Apple corporation (that goes without saying).
We are also trying to make it refuse to run on any Apple, Dell or HP-built hardware, but we're having some privacy concerns there... just putting a pin in that for now.
Now where was I? Right - Cloudflare.
Of course this is all in vain without our own infrastructure, data centres and other stuff - decentralize to the core or go home is what I say!
Give us another decade or two and marvel at our success!
All with zero budget, in our free time - as it should be.
Stay tuned.
Edit - for extra irony points - my stuff (where it's 100% my call):
I did seriously consider ditching it a few weeks before this major outage - but concluded that keeping it is the less bad option. I still think it was the least-bad call.
🔧 BikeGremlin guides & resources
Okay after this detailed and highly technical explanation I am out.
The main reason we use CF is that it provides a FREE and effective protective layer since it proxies all connections and provides web app firewall + DDoS and bot/malicious request protection as a result of that. Nobody can connect directly to our Hetzner VPS running the site, which immensely lessens any potential attack vectors and surfaces. (If anyone is able to derive the real IP of this site, please let me know so we can patch that up)
Another huge benefit CF provides is that it's a one stop shop for all the goodies you'd ever want for web hosting. So while we're mostly using it for protection, we also get CDN, analytics, web request filtering/controls, end-to-end encryption, and a bunch of other bells and whistles.
Besides being free, the ease of using the service is another big reason that it'd be hard to convince me to leave. All of these features are being provided by a single platform that is essentially "set and forget" and requires next to zero time to manage or maintain. If I had to migrate and pay for these individual services for LES and also maintain them, then I'd be losing my mind more than I already am and uptime would most likely be in the toilet.
Head Janitor @ LES • About • Rules • Support
Thank you Cloudflare.
Thanks, @Mason!
Let me see if I can improve my thinking about Cloudflare by changing
Cloudflare
CDN
firewall
to
Cloudflare
CDN
firewall
reverse proxy
layer 7 web app filter
DDoS protection
bot / malicious request protection
analytics
web request filtering/controls
end-to-end encryption
+FREE
+Single platform (all that's needed in a one-stop shop)
+Easy to set up, near zero time to manage.
Additional Cloudflare benefits include
Inexpensive, at cost domain registration
DNS
Thanks again, @Mason! Thanks, Cloudflare!
I hope everyone gets the servers they want!
I would add MITM there - that's public (no "conspiracy theory"), that's how it must be in order to work:
https://io.bikegremlin.com/7270/cloudflare/#6-my-opinion-and-a-note
Also, on top of that, for real end-to-end encryption, you still need a valid certificate on your hosting server (that CF then uses to communicate with your server).
But it is fairly set-and-forget and when configured properly it does provide effectively end-to-end encryption.
To get that kind of service quality would take a lot of money and energy (I mean all the goodies that CF provides - "for free").
Yes, we are the product, it doesn't do it for our sake - but that's the modern world (and Internet).
Those problems won't be solved by messing with one forum.
Relja
🔧 BikeGremlin guides & resources
So the answer of technical guys passionate about computers and servers is: use Cloudflare. The very same answer could be given by a teenager going to high school these days.
I honestly expected more from this forum. I expected other solutions and standing up for the sake of technology, self-hosting, and passion towards providers. Instead I see a bunch of [...] raising the white flag and calling it a day.
The end is truly nigh. I shall invite myself out of such complacent thread. I believe in more than this; I want to believe. There are so many providers around here, and you keep choosing Cloudflare. Feel free to use Cloudflare and thank them as much as you wish.
I'm out.
I reserve the right to license all of my content under: CC BY-NC-ND. Whatever happens on this forum should stay on this forum.