@AlwaysSkint said:
Might it be better to split this page (plus some other posts) into a separate Feedback thread, to keep the Rules one 'clean'?
/opinion
Agree with @AlwaysSkint, time to practice the split topic skillz.
@AnthonySmith you cleared the drama and now it looks like you banned someone because he criticized you. At least that was my impression until I noticed you deleted some posts.
@pike said: @AnthonySmith you cleared the drama and now it looks like you banned someone because he criticized you. At least that was my impression until I noticed you deleted some posts.
Which posts gave you that impression so I can clean that up too?
Thanks for setting up this forum. I have never been very active over at LET/B, let alone the last years, but returned there after the announcement of closing servers in Japan per 2020, looking for a replacement. The forums there did not feel familiar anymore.
I recalled visiting lowendspirit before, and found the forum just started/rebooted.
I am happy I turned up here, good luck to all in the same spirit.
@wankel said:
Thanks for setting up this forum. I have never been very active over at LET/B, let alone the last years, but returned there after the announcement of closing servers in Japan per 2020, looking for a replacement. The forums there did not feel familiar anymore.
I recalled visiting lowendspirit before, and found the forum just started/rebooted.
I am happy I turned up here, good luck to all in the same spirit.
@seriesn said:
Ant, what would be price limit if someone is to offer a resource pool plan?
I don't buy or sell them so I do not feel qualified to set a price on behalf of the community or hosts, I suggest you start and lead a thread about it and I will keep an eye on it impartially as I have no dog in that race.
I think the right answer will be obvious within 24 hours.
@root said:
I propose a rule for LES staff: Board shall never be sold, managed, controlled or manipulated, by companies or corporations, whatever their reasons, motivations and intentions.
Well that's a problem from the get go
Hi my name is Anthony, I own and operate Inception Hosting Limited, a registered company, I have good intent and motivations however your statement encompassed the positive and the negative haha.
I am never going to be ashamed of trying to make money, but I am a regular guy from a humble background so I am not out to screw anyone over.
My plan for this place is to operate it for a while, monetize it so it can pay for its own staff to run it professionally and then pass it on to a carefully selected community member, essentially exactly the same path as the original LES but with all of the mistakes taken out and lesson learned along the way.
I will also be putting fail safe measures in place when it is handed over so that if it does even remotely start to go the way of LET I can pull the plug.
I wonder if it is possible to separate the control instead of passing it to just a member, kind of like how politically we separate the powers of the government into different branches.
Distributed control has a lot of overhead. The site would have to be large enough and generate enough revenue to keep multiple people interested in running it, as well as interested in participating in this type of structure. As well, that type of structure doesn't guarantee stability or appropriate behavior. Even large corporations are rarely set up to prevent specific people from taking things in a direction counter to the original intent / charter of the organization.
On a practical level, this kind of governance generally requires the participants "play fair". I.E. if someone owns the domain, they can move the site wherever they want. If someone controls the server the site is hosted on, they can hold the database hostage. Necessarily from a technical level, there's not much getting around the fact that someone will be in control of some critical aspect.
Now, on the other hand, the kind of problems you see on LEB / LET are entirely predictable simply by knowing -who- control was handed over to. Jon is shamelessly self-promotional and doesn't much care who he steps over to get where he's going. He's by no stretch the worst person in the hosting industry, and I'm not trying to say he's a "terrible" person. However, if your goal was to ensure that a community website be run in a way that's in the best interests of said community, he's very clearly on the list of people you'd not put in charge. Importantly -- that fact was obvious before he owned those sites.
I guess what I'm saying is, Anthony's proposed succession plan is as reasonable of one as any I can think of.
@root said:
I propose a rule for LES staff: Board shall never be sold, managed, controlled or manipulated, by companies or corporations, whatever their reasons, motivations and intentions.
Well that's a problem from the get go
Hi my name is Anthony, I own and operate Inception Hosting Limited, a registered company, I have good intent and motivations however your statement encompassed the positive and the negative haha.
I am never going to be ashamed of trying to make money, but I am a regular guy from a humble background so I am not out to screw anyone over.
My plan for this place is to operate it for a while, monetize it so it can pay for its own staff to run it professionally and then pass it on to a carefully selected community member, essentially exactly the same path as the original LES but with all of the mistakes taken out and lesson learned along the way.
I will also be putting fail safe measures in place when it is handed over so that if it does even remotely start to go the way of LET I can pull the plug.
I wonder if it is possible to separate the control instead of passing it to just a member, kind of like how politically we separate the powers of the government into different branches.
Distributed control has a lot of overhead. The site would have to be large enough and generate enough revenue to keep multiple people interested in running it, as well as interested in participating in this type of structure. As well, that type of structure doesn't guarantee stability or appropriate behavior. Even large corporations are rarely set up to prevent specific people from taking things in a direction counter to the original intent / charter of the organization.
On a practical level, this kind of governance generally requires the participants "play fair". I.E. if someone owns the domain, they can move the site wherever they want. If someone controls the server the site is hosted on, they can hold the database hostage. Necessarily from a technical level, there's not much getting around the fact that someone will be in control of some critical aspect.
Now, on the other hand, the kind of problems you see on LEB / LET are entirely predictable simply by knowing -who- control was handed over to. Jon is shamelessly self-promotional and doesn't much care who he steps over to get where he's going. He's by no stretch the worst person in the hosting industry, and I'm not trying to say he's a "terrible" person. However, if your goal was to ensure that a community website be run in a way that's in the best interests of said community, he's very clearly on the list of people you'd not put in charge. Importantly -- that fact was obvious before he owned those sites.
I guess what I'm saying is, Anthony's proposed succession plan is as reasonable of one as any I can think of.
Correct/disregard if it's a stupid idea:
One entity/person getting the control of the hosting/database and backups.
Another entrusted with the domain.
It's as close as it can get to distributing the trust/responsibility, so that no one person is in a position to do as they please.
It can be further watered down by having the third one get administrator privileges for the forum, though the one having the hosting under control should not have a difficult time in changing that (again, correct me if I'm wrong).
The most difficult thing being finding reliable people, who are willing to put in the time and effort (probably for free).
My thinking out loud:
LET forum: lots of google results lead there, that's how I had find out (sorry, blame google ). With some good informative discussions (I linked some from my website, on certain topics). The main problem being the distrust of the owners and the moderation policy of shady offers - justified distrust from all I could gather. Knoweldgeable members mostly turning to LES now from what I can see.
WHT forum: lots of informative discussions, some knowledgeable members, but very strict rules. Sure, it's prevented it from becoming a total spam/advert fest. But the main downside is it's hard to get a straight answer / recommendation. It gets extra funny when hosting providers' representatives reply - they can't offer/recommend their hosting, but won't straight out recommend another hosting. Newbies get talked to like a nice woman walking into a bar - everyone approaching, wanting to fuck, but not really putting it that openly. Another gripe I have with WHT is not being allowed to post any links to your site. I hate doing the same work twice - my site is non-profit, informative and why should I write a forum post if I've already written on the website (with them pictures as well)? There's no discerning between that and providers posting.
LES forum: all the pros of LET (straight forward help and answers from knowledgeable members), with no downsides (shady rule enforcement and owners with an agenda). So far looks good.
Thanks to @AnthonySmith for this effort, I truly believe it is a genuine effort to make a good quality forum, where we can all share knowledge (and cat/panda pictures, what else is the Internet for?!) and good offers. Colour me naive if you like, but that's my impression. Hope it remains true. If when I have more time on my hands, I'd be happy to put in some time helping, whichever way is useful, but so far I can just offer a "pat on the back" - "well done, keep at it".
Regarding signatures, is the 2 lines limit specifically to limit being spammy or for space reasons? Because quite often, legit 2 line signatures show up as 4 lines on mobile due to wraparound (which I don't like for aesthetic and reading flow). Maybe it should say "... on desktop" because it's sometimes difficult to tell if it's 4 lines or 2 lines wrapped and might get a sig or two flagged when user is on phone.
Perhaps set a character limit, like twitter does per tweet.
Line breaks depends on screen size, landscape or portrait mode.
A specific number of characters could also be coded to exclude the extra characters.
No one would then be able to break the rule as it wont display more than, say 140 chars.
@teamacc said: What about offers for providers that are "basically the same entity" and the 7-day rule? Think ovh/sys/kimsufi and (more recently) ioflood/1tbvps?
SYS and kimsufi are brand of a single entity not completely separate registered legal entities, if someone wants to go through all the trouble of registering another separate company then I personally don't see any issue with allowing separate offers, do you?
@teamacc said: What about offers for providers that are "basically the same entity" and the 7-day rule? Think ovh/sys/kimsufi and (more recently) ioflood/1tbvps?
SYS and kimsufi are brand of a single entity not completely separate registered legal entities, if someone wants to go through all the trouble of registering another separate company then I personally don't see any issue with allowing separate offers, do you?
I kinda do, see the 25+ hosts that deadpooled on LEB. Those were all separate registered thingies.
As a suggestion, I'd suggest the one-size-fits-all thing here: dont be a dick. Thoughts?
@teamacc said: What about offers for providers that are "basically the same entity" and the 7-day rule? Think ovh/sys/kimsufi and (more recently) ioflood/1tbvps?
SYS and kimsufi are brand of a single entity not completely separate registered legal entities, if someone wants to go through all the trouble of registering another separate company then I personally don't see any issue with allowing separate offers, do you?
I kinda do, see the 25+ hosts that deadpooled on LEB. Those were all separate registered thingies.
As a suggestion, I'd suggest the one-size-fits-all thing here: dont be a dick. Thoughts?
I think there is a different between criminal intent and having another legal subsidiary tho to be fair. I can't imagine that would go well here.
@teamacc said: What about offers for providers that are "basically the same entity" and the 7-day rule? Think ovh/sys/kimsufi and (more recently) ioflood/1tbvps?
SYS and kimsufi are brand of a single entity not completely separate registered legal entities, if someone wants to go through all the trouble of registering another separate company then I personally don't see any issue with allowing separate offers, do you?
I kinda do, see the 25+ hosts that deadpooled on LEB. Those were all separate registered thingies.
As a suggestion, I'd suggest the one-size-fits-all thing here: dont be a dick. Thoughts?
I think there is a different between criminal intent and having another legal subsidiary tho to be fair. I can't imagine that would go well here.
Comments
personally I think making some money for a job well done is fine.
running a scam is not.
so ... here we are.
HS4LIFE (+ (* 3 4) (* 5 6))
Might it be better to split this page (plus some other posts) into a separate Feedback thread, to keep the Rules one 'clean'?
/opinion
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
Agree with @AlwaysSkint, time to practice the split topic skillz.
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
I agree, I cleaned it up a little, I will leave it for a week or so though so feedback can stay in 1 place.
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
Class, BTW.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away.
NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh)
@AnthonySmith you cleared the drama and now it looks like you banned someone because he criticized you. At least that was my impression until I noticed you deleted some posts.
Recommended services: PHP-Friends vServer | Clouvider HA Cloud VPS | MXRoute E-Mail Hosting
Which posts gave you that impression so I can clean that up too?
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
Thanks for setting up this forum. I have never been very active over at LET/B, let alone the last years, but returned there after the announcement of closing servers in Japan per 2020, looking for a replacement. The forums there did not feel familiar anymore.
I recalled visiting lowendspirit before, and found the forum just started/rebooted.
I am happy I turned up here, good luck to all in the same spirit.
Looking forward to more participation from you!
Deals and Reviews: LowEndBoxes Review | Avoid dodgy providers with The LEBRE Whitelist | Free hosting (with conditions): Evolution-Host, NanoKVM, FreeMach, ServedEZ | Get expert copyediting and copywriting help at The Write Flow
i came here for the spirits where to buy?.
Ant, what would be price limit if someone is to offer a resource pool plan?
Nexus Bytes Ryzen Powered NVMe VPS | NYC|Miami|LA|London|Netherlands| Singapore|Tokyo
Storage VPS | LiteSpeed Powered Web Hosting + SSH access | Switcher Special |
Now you're taking my money
Michael from DragonWebHost & OnePoundEmail
Almost there, once I know my $$ limit :P
Nexus Bytes Ryzen Powered NVMe VPS | NYC|Miami|LA|London|Netherlands| Singapore|Tokyo
Storage VPS | LiteSpeed Powered Web Hosting + SSH access | Switcher Special |
I don't buy or sell them so I do not feel qualified to set a price on behalf of the community or hosts, I suggest you start and lead a thread about it and I will keep an eye on it impartially as I have no dog in that race.
I think the right answer will be obvious within 24 hours.
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
Yes! A thread about feedback on resource pools.
Providers with lots of resources lying around, should be able to make competitive offers with a higher $/mo limit for pools.
@AnthonySmith @seriesn @vimalware - I took the liberty of starting the resource pool thread:
https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/132/resource-pool-pricing-guidelines-feedback-wanted
HS4LIFE (+ (* 3 4) (* 5 6))
Loving the dark theme, looks great.
Distributed control has a lot of overhead. The site would have to be large enough and generate enough revenue to keep multiple people interested in running it, as well as interested in participating in this type of structure. As well, that type of structure doesn't guarantee stability or appropriate behavior. Even large corporations are rarely set up to prevent specific people from taking things in a direction counter to the original intent / charter of the organization.
On a practical level, this kind of governance generally requires the participants "play fair". I.E. if someone owns the domain, they can move the site wherever they want. If someone controls the server the site is hosted on, they can hold the database hostage. Necessarily from a technical level, there's not much getting around the fact that someone will be in control of some critical aspect.
Now, on the other hand, the kind of problems you see on LEB / LET are entirely predictable simply by knowing -who- control was handed over to. Jon is shamelessly self-promotional and doesn't much care who he steps over to get where he's going. He's by no stretch the worst person in the hosting industry, and I'm not trying to say he's a "terrible" person. However, if your goal was to ensure that a community website be run in a way that's in the best interests of said community, he's very clearly on the list of people you'd not put in charge. Importantly -- that fact was obvious before he owned those sites.
I guess what I'm saying is, Anthony's proposed succession plan is as reasonable of one as any I can think of.
LETexit
My pronouns are like/subscribe.
Correct/disregard if it's a stupid idea:
One entity/person getting the control of the hosting/database and backups.
Another entrusted with the domain.
It's as close as it can get to distributing the trust/responsibility, so that no one person is in a position to do as they please.
It can be further watered down by having the third one get administrator privileges for the forum, though the one having the hosting under control should not have a difficult time in changing that (again, correct me if I'm wrong).
The most difficult thing being finding reliable people, who are willing to put in the time and effort (probably for free).
My thinking out loud:
LET forum: lots of google results lead there, that's how I had find out (sorry, blame google
). With some good informative discussions (I linked some from my website, on certain topics). The main problem being the distrust of the owners and the moderation policy of shady offers - justified distrust from all I could gather. Knoweldgeable members mostly turning to LES now from what I can see.
WHT forum: lots of informative discussions, some knowledgeable members, but very strict rules. Sure, it's prevented it from becoming a total spam/advert fest. But the main downside is it's hard to get a straight answer / recommendation. It gets extra funny when hosting providers' representatives reply - they can't offer/recommend their hosting, but won't straight out recommend another hosting. Newbies get talked to like a nice woman walking into a bar - everyone approaching, wanting to fuck, but not really putting it that openly.
Another gripe I have with WHT is not being allowed to post any links to your site. I hate doing the same work twice - my site is non-profit, informative and why should I write a forum post if I've already written on the website (with them pictures as well)? There's no discerning between that and providers posting.
LES forum: all the pros of LET (straight forward help and answers from knowledgeable members), with no downsides (shady rule enforcement and owners with an agenda). So far looks good.
Thanks to @AnthonySmith for this effort, I truly believe it is a genuine effort to make a good quality forum, where we can all share knowledge (and cat/panda pictures, what else is the Internet for?!) and good offers. Colour me naive if you like, but that's my impression. Hope it remains true. If when I have more time on my hands, I'd be happy to put in some time helping, whichever way is useful, but so far I can just offer a "pat on the back" - "well done, keep at it".
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
Regarding signatures, is the 2 lines limit specifically to limit being spammy or for space reasons? Because quite often, legit 2 line signatures show up as 4 lines on mobile due to wraparound (which I don't like for aesthetic and reading flow). Maybe it should say "... on desktop" because it's sometimes difficult to tell if it's 4 lines or 2 lines wrapped and might get a sig or two flagged when user is on phone.
Also, s/loose/lose/. Thanks!
@AlSwearengen I can just disable signatures on mobile I guess.
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
@AlSwearengen @AnthonySmith
Perhaps set a character limit, like twitter does per tweet.
Line breaks depends on screen size, landscape or portrait mode.
A specific number of characters could also be coded to exclude the extra characters.
No one would then be able to break the rule as it wont display more than, say 140 chars.
“Technology is best when it brings people together.” – Matt Mullenweg
Boss: "$3 p/month Maximum for Shared hosting offers" - What about Reseller hosting?
Michael from DragonWebHost & OnePoundEmail
Let’s discuss.
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
What about offers for providers that are "basically the same entity" and the 7-day rule? Think ovh/sys/kimsufi and (more recently) ioflood/1tbvps?
Hey teamacc. You're a dick. (c) Jon Biloh, 2020.
SYS and kimsufi are brand of a single entity not completely separate registered legal entities, if someone wants to go through all the trouble of registering another separate company then I personally don't see any issue with allowing separate offers, do you?
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
I kinda do, see the 25+ hosts that deadpooled on LEB. Those were all separate registered thingies.
As a suggestion, I'd suggest the one-size-fits-all thing here: dont be a dick. Thoughts?
Hey teamacc. You're a dick. (c) Jon Biloh, 2020.
I think there is a different between criminal intent and having another legal subsidiary tho to be fair. I can't imagine that would go well here.
Michael from DragonWebHost & OnePoundEmail
Time to register ServedEz and find my alter ego.
Nexus Bytes Ryzen Powered NVMe VPS | NYC|Miami|LA|London|Netherlands| Singapore|Tokyo
Storage VPS | LiteSpeed Powered Web Hosting + SSH access | Switcher Special |