@jarland did you want this off-topic for a reason? I would be happy to move it so it is indexed this sort of thing should really be public but I understand if you would rather not at this time.
Additionally, if you are able to share any other information I am more than happy to also open a ticket with stripe expressing my concerns, not just to push harder but because the more I have thought about this it makes me genuinely uncomfortable.
Maybe some other hosts would be willing to do the same?
Obviously, you can't share any direct details for GDPT/DPA etc however you could perhaps share the ticket number you have no doubt lodged as a complaint with stripe which would allow them to trace any additional complaint back to yours should we reference it.
@deank said:
Just for the record, how much are we talking about here?
$99. I don't much care about that, but my insistence is that I will no pay out of pocket for someone to try the service. In this case, chargeback fees.
I’m going to assume he doesn’t realize how much an attorney is going to cost him. I mean, seriously.
Last attorney we paid costed $1k to just look at the thing.
@AnthonySmith said: @jarland did you want this off-topic for a reason? I would be happy to move it so it is indexed this sort of thing should really be public but I understand if you would rather not at this time.
Additionally, if you are able to share any other information I am more than happy to also open a ticket with stripe expressing my concerns, not just to push harder but because the more I have thought about this it makes me genuinely uncomfortable.
Maybe some other hosts would be willing to do the same?
Obviously, you can't share any direct details for GDPT/DPA etc however you could perhaps share the ticket number you have no doubt lodged as a complaint with stripe which would allow them to trace any additional complaint back to yours should we reference it.
Sure, feel free to make public. I started quiet as a sanity check, but might as well get louder. The threat really escalated how I felt about it pretty quickly.
I don’t have a ticket number yet as they only said in chat they were escalating and haven’t heard back yet. I replied to their support@ email with the chat log to report the threats, so odds are support hasn’t reviewed that part yet. But I’ve made sure they have the information via other avenues as well:
Indeed it does look like he wants to lose his job.
I have seen laws that contradict common sense, and/or my sense of ethics and morality.
Check with a lawyer, and see where you stand - in case he tries to bite, in addition to barking.
And, if you haven't already, make sure this is presented to people before they pay the money - in BOLD, idiot friendly way:
Perhaps adding Chargeback part at the top, in bold.
Right above Spam section (which perhaps should also be on top).
Never underestimate human laziness and stupidity - especially when dealing with large number of people - so you get a lot of 1 in a 1000 "jewels" of all kinds.
Stripe is a shit gateway, I had more than 500 sales in a single month with this damn company and for some magical reason more than 10 purchases were simply retained by chargeback, it is worth mentioning that for each chargeback they discount R$ 55 BRL, therefore 550 "reais" (around 100 usd) of loss.
While at the other gateways in the same period of time I have NEVER had chargeback problems.
I really hope stripe will do the right thing and fire that jackass so he learns his lesson. As people have said before in this thread, that scumbag signed up with the intention to cause problems and whenever I see people threatening with legal actions, lawyers, etc because of some $99 payment it just triggers me.
I'm not looking to be any more trouble than I have to be here. While they investigate, I've removed posts about this from Twitter (but left the one on my personal account) and LinkedIn. This was my choice. I can always post things again if I feel that I need to attract more attention to it.
@jarland said: While they investigate, I've removed posts about this from Twitter
From what I saw of the response, it is professional, courteous and if anything very lets-avoid-needless-flame-throwing. It seems apt as a first (official) response from Stripe to you.
IMHO you are doing the right thing in approaching it this way (including removing negative publicity for them via Twitter - you have got their attention through the official channels and so in that sense you have achieved your desired outcome for now - so it is prudent to wait to see how things go before doing anything that may jeopardize the relationship as a whole).
I'm sure Stripe is going to be very careful with their image as well and ensure that one bad apple doesn't make the whole barrel bad.
Good luck with everything and so far things seem to be heading in the right direction.
OMFG sorry, gonna tell my boss, if it turns out to be true we will deal with it don’t worry, sorry, sorry, let me get back to you, something will be done but sadly I won’t be allowed to tell you exactly what.
I wish it was OK to just communicate like that haha.
OMFG sorry, gonna tell my boss, if it turns out to be true we will deal with it don’t worry, sorry, sorry, let me get back to you, something will be done but sadly I won’t be allowed to tell you exactly what.
I wish it was OK to just communicate like that haha.
Haha yeah. Well needless to say I’ll be following his career very closely. I doubt he gets fired over this as it is plausible that his employment is unrelated to just about everything other than how he obtained knowledge he thinks he possesses that he intends to ruin me with (surely a stripe employee who claims to have MasterCard policy memorized didn’t gain that as a side hobby).
But if he gets nothing more than thin ice under his feet and a good story to tell about why ignoring the policy of a company you signed up with is of little value no matter how right you think you are in opposition of it, that’ll be a good use of roughly an hour of combined time spent on it. Any way you spin this I’m paying for his brief time as a customer, I expect to get something out of it. An advocate against signing up for people on the fence that might choose to ignore the no refund policy will do.
Do everything as though everyone you’ll ever know is watching.
Are you fairly certain he guessed/measured the size of your company via Stripe data?
Fairly sure userids/invoiceids on WHMCS are quite a clear giveaway on how much business a site has done, but those don't require any payment TBF. Not that it makes any difference, agree on your "provide reasonable reasons" for a refund regardless of who it is.
Also might be worth looking at 3D-secure which covers your arse for unwarranted chargebacks. Had one a few years back for a tech product where the user was a bit out their depth, product was about the same price. Spent a few hours of my life helping them and got a chargeback the next again day. Nothing I could do about it without 3D-secure (this was with Wirecard as the processor and what they told me we should do to avoid the same situation again)
@ricardo said: Fairly sure userids/invoiceids on WHMCS are quite a clear giveaway on how much business a site has done, but those don't require any payment TBF.
I'm sorry but, regardless of the end result: I am now uncomfortable doing business with Stripe with the awareness of employee and their actions.
Knowing the employee is open to breaking clauses they agreed with a provider does not give me any confidence about their work ethic - even if they haven't committed the specific allegation made it makes them open to other immoral or unethical actions. It 100% adds definition to their existence as a human being which can't just be limited to one scenario and extends to define the company they represent.
I am sad that eventually I will just not use anything or do anything because people are just.. dick heads.
@SmallWeb said:
I'm sorry but, regardless of the end result: I am now uncomfortable doing business with Stripe with the awareness of employee and their actions.
Knowing the employee is open to breaking clauses they agreed with a provider does not give me any confidence about their work ethic - even if they haven't committed the specific allegation made it makes them open to other immoral or unethical actions. It 100% adds definition to their existence as a human being which can't just be limited to one scenario and extends to define the company they represent.
I am sad that eventually I will just not use anything or do anything because people are just.. dick heads.
I once met a dishonest human, and stopped doing any business with humans ever since!
@SmallWeb said:
I'm sorry but, regardless of the end result: I am now uncomfortable doing business with Stripe with the awareness of employee and their actions.
Knowing the employee is open to breaking clauses they agreed with a provider does not give me any confidence about their work ethic - even if they haven't committed the specific allegation made it makes them open to other immoral or unethical actions. It 100% adds definition to their existence as a human being which can't just be limited to one scenario and extends to define the company they represent.
I am sad that eventually I will just not use anything or do anything because people are just.. dick heads.
I once met a dishonest human, and stopped doing any business with humans ever since!
@ricardo said: Fairly sure userids/invoiceids on WHMCS are quite a clear giveaway on how much business a site has done, but those don't require any payment TBF.
To be fair it's pretty well discussed that it's a mostly "1 man operation" that doesn't mean it's bad and is something I have faith in also. But I've been able to establish this from just forum discussion so ya that's definitely possible
@ricardo said: Fairly sure userids/invoiceids on WHMCS are quite a clear giveaway on how much business a site has done, but those don't require any payment TBF.
To be fair it's pretty well discussed that it's a mostly "1 man operation" that doesn't mean it's bad and is something I have faith in also. But I've been able to establish this from just forum discussion so ya that's definitely possible
In fairness, I’ve seen quite a few companies be able to be operated as a 1-person team. If your product is pretty much automated, and support isn’t crazy (and you know when to say no & charge people extra for support if they’re opening 100 tickets an hour), then it’s entirely plausible to run it sustainably as a single entity.
@SmallWeb said:
I'm sorry but, regardless of the end result: I am now uncomfortable doing business with Stripe with the awareness of employee and their actions.
Knowing the employee is open to breaking clauses they agreed with a provider does not give me any confidence about their work ethic - even if they haven't committed the specific allegation made it makes them open to other immoral or unethical actions. It 100% adds definition to their existence as a human being which can't just be limited to one scenario and extends to define the company they represent.
I am sad that eventually I will just not use anything or do anything because people are just.. dick heads.
Good old bank transfers and no automatic setup. Provisioning within 24 hours. Those were the days :P
@Ympker said: Good old bank transfers and no automatic setup. Provisioning within 24 hours. Those were the days :P
Haha 24 hours? Bank transfers in US are in weeks for personal ones, the system (ACH) does not have error handling or exceptions, the receiving bank needs to check their folder every day for a while (depending on how much they trust the customer to have good funds) for the sending bank to upload a "insufficient funds" message
Comments
@jarland did you want this off-topic for a reason? I would be happy to move it so it is indexed this sort of thing should really be public but I understand if you would rather not at this time.
Additionally, if you are able to share any other information I am more than happy to also open a ticket with stripe expressing my concerns, not just to push harder but because the more I have thought about this it makes me genuinely uncomfortable.
Maybe some other hosts would be willing to do the same?
Obviously, you can't share any direct details for GDPT/DPA etc however you could perhaps share the ticket number you have no doubt lodged as a complaint with stripe which would allow them to trace any additional complaint back to yours should we reference it.
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
I’m going to assume he doesn’t realize how much an attorney is going to cost him. I mean, seriously.
Last attorney we paid costed $1k to just look at the thing.
That’s suicide for them. I’d report it, and gradually get louder every few days, cause a bit of a twitter storm.
Sure, feel free to make public. I started quiet as a sanity check, but might as well get louder. The threat really escalated how I felt about it pretty quickly.
I don’t have a ticket number yet as they only said in chat they were escalating and haven’t heard back yet. I replied to their support@ email with the chat log to report the threats, so odds are support hasn’t reviewed that part yet. But I’ve made sure they have the information via other avenues as well:
Do everything as though everyone you’ll ever know is watching.
@jarland done, if you get the usual corporate nonsense "go away" in disguise response please do let us know.
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
Nice country.
I have seen laws that contradict common sense, and/or my sense of ethics and morality.
Check with a lawyer, and see where you stand - in case he tries to bite, in addition to barking.
And, if you haven't already, make sure this is presented to people before they pay the money - in BOLD, idiot friendly way:
https://mxroute.com/policy/
Perhaps adding Chargeback part at the top, in bold.
Right above Spam section (which perhaps should also be on top).
Never underestimate human laziness and stupidity - especially when dealing with large number of people - so you get a lot of 1 in a 1000 "jewels" of all kinds.
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
Stripe is a shit gateway, I had more than 500 sales in a single month with this damn company and for some magical reason more than 10 purchases were simply retained by chargeback, it is worth mentioning that for each chargeback they discount R$ 55 BRL, therefore 550 "reais" (around 100 usd) of loss.
While at the other gateways in the same period of time I have NEVER had chargeback problems.
https://purplehost.com.br - Reliable, secure and affordable game hosting.
I really hope stripe will do the right thing and fire that jackass so he learns his lesson. As people have said before in this thread, that scumbag signed up with the intention to cause problems and whenever I see people threatening with legal actions, lawyers, etc because of some $99 payment it just triggers me.
Stripe has responded.
https://paste.mxrouteapps.com/?3fef93f9e43887fe#9fiG15dbzMUE6SHtUn83BSYAmaRGjKAok7XaYGxezj3f
This is primarily a response to my initial accusation against the employee, the threatening email was the secondary additional piece.
Do everything as though everyone you’ll ever know is watching.
Mary the Lawyer or Mary posting what was drafted by a lawyer?
———-
blog | exploring visually |
I'm not looking to be any more trouble than I have to be here. While they investigate, I've removed posts about this from Twitter (but left the one on my personal account) and LinkedIn. This was my choice. I can always post things again if I feel that I need to attract more attention to it.
Do everything as though everyone you’ll ever know is watching.
From what I saw of the response, it is professional, courteous and if anything very lets-avoid-needless-flame-throwing. It seems apt as a first (official) response from Stripe to you.
IMHO you are doing the right thing in approaching it this way (including removing negative publicity for them via Twitter - you have got their attention through the official channels and so in that sense you have achieved your desired outcome for now - so it is prudent to wait to see how things go before doing anything that may jeopardize the relationship as a whole).
I'm sure Stripe is going to be very careful with their image as well and ensure that one bad apple doesn't make the whole barrel bad.
Good luck with everything and so far things seem to be heading in the right direction.
Seems like a very reasonable response on striped end. Hopefully works out quickly
Recommended hosts:
Letbox, Data ideas, Hetzner
I read that as.
OMFG sorry, gonna tell my boss, if it turns out to be true we will deal with it don’t worry, sorry, sorry, let me get back to you, something will be done but sadly I won’t be allowed to tell you exactly what.
I wish it was OK to just communicate like that haha.
https://inceptionhosting.com
Please do not use the PM system here for Inception Hosting support issues.
Haha yeah. Well needless to say I’ll be following his career very closely. I doubt he gets fired over this as it is plausible that his employment is unrelated to just about everything other than how he obtained knowledge he thinks he possesses that he intends to ruin me with (surely a stripe employee who claims to have MasterCard policy memorized didn’t gain that as a side hobby).
But if he gets nothing more than thin ice under his feet and a good story to tell about why ignoring the policy of a company you signed up with is of little value no matter how right you think you are in opposition of it, that’ll be a good use of roughly an hour of combined time spent on it. Any way you spin this I’m paying for his brief time as a customer, I expect to get something out of it. An advocate against signing up for people on the fence that might choose to ignore the no refund policy will do.
Do everything as though everyone you’ll ever know is watching.
Are you fairly certain he guessed/measured the size of your company via Stripe data?
Fairly sure userids/invoiceids on WHMCS are quite a clear giveaway on how much business a site has done, but those don't require any payment TBF. Not that it makes any difference, agree on your "provide reasonable reasons" for a refund regardless of who it is.
Also might be worth looking at 3D-secure which covers your arse for unwarranted chargebacks. Had one a few years back for a tech product where the user was a bit out their depth, product was about the same price. Spent a few hours of my life helping them and got a chargeback the next again day. Nothing I could do about it without 3D-secure (this was with Wirecard as the processor and what they told me we should do to avoid the same situation again)
This Tweet is from an account that no longer exists
@jar deleted his original tweet. Maybe the translation got fucked up, coz my account is still quite there
No, there was an additional tweet.
EDIT: I thought it was the account of the employee but it's not.
Yeah that's sort of an info leak. If I used their product I'd want them to patch that.
Entirely plausible.
Ty for the tip!
Do everything as though everyone you’ll ever know is watching.
I'm sorry but, regardless of the end result: I am now uncomfortable doing business with Stripe with the awareness of employee and their actions.
Knowing the employee is open to breaking clauses they agreed with a provider does not give me any confidence about their work ethic - even if they haven't committed the specific allegation made it makes them open to other immoral or unethical actions. It 100% adds definition to their existence as a human being which can't just be limited to one scenario and extends to define the company they represent.
I am sad that eventually I will just not use anything or do anything because people are just.. dick heads.
Michael from DragonWebHost & OnePoundEmail
I once met a dishonest human, and stopped doing any business with humans ever since!
Relja of House Novović, the First of His Name, King of the Plains, the Breaker of Chains, WirMach Wolves pack member
BikeGremlin's web-hosting reviews
My dear, if only it was one
Michael from DragonWebHost & OnePoundEmail
To be fair it's pretty well discussed that it's a mostly "1 man operation" that doesn't mean it's bad and is something I have faith in also. But I've been able to establish this from just forum discussion so ya that's definitely possible
In fairness, I’ve seen quite a few companies be able to be operated as a 1-person team. If your product is pretty much automated, and support isn’t crazy (and you know when to say no & charge people extra for support if they’re opening 100 tickets an hour), then it’s entirely plausible to run it sustainably as a single entity.
Good old bank transfers and no automatic setup. Provisioning within 24 hours. Those were the days :P
Ympker's VPN LTD Comparison, Uptime.is, Ympker's GitHub.
Haha 24 hours? Bank transfers in US are in weeks for personal ones, the system (ACH) does not have error handling or exceptions, the receiving bank needs to check their folder every day for a while (depending on how much they trust the customer to have good funds) for the sending bank to upload a "insufficient funds" message