Keyboard Master Race

davide

Is there any keyboard you feel exceptionally comfortable with? What model is it?

My laptop keyboard was extraordinarily comfy, 5° outward curvature, crisp key-press threshold, wrist rest warmed by the CPU (practical during EU cold-war winters)... but then it broke. So I got a replacement from AliExpress but it's a rubbish replica with mushy rubber domes with no clear feedback, and the keys are too hard to press. So I'm looking to buy something else. But what? Either a notebook or a standalone keyboard are fine, but I'm looking for something truly top notch so I imagine that only a notebook can have a top quality keyboard and fit within a normie's discretional spending allowance, because a quality standalone keyboard can cost more than my car.

Falzo

Only mechanical switches. Test a few different ones, to find out which behaviour suits you best. For me it is brown ones, but this something very subjective.

davide

@Falzo said:
Only mechanical switches. Test a few different ones, to find out which behaviour suits you best. For me it is brown ones, but this something very subjective.

I was born without the gene for mechanical keyboard, I've been using the Logitech kb in the pic above for two weeks as a temporary replacement, and I'm starting to have carpal tunnel syndrome which I never ever had before. My main issue with these kbs is the long key travel distance, which requires wider movements of the finger joints and more cumulative joules. They are also noisy since that extra typing energy bounces back into my eardrums...

Falzo

That keyboard doesn't neccessarily look like mechanical. If you still wanna try, I'd suggest red switches. Linear, only 40g pressure, silent(ish) :-)

Neoon

I get like mechanical keyboards, when on sale, for about 20-40€, with shipping.
Right now I am hooked on Ducky Keyboards.

My last one was 22€, MX Blue

poei

I remember the Amiga 1000 was dreamy to type on.

Wolveix

I use a Kinesis Advantage360 with Gateron Browns. Comfiest keyboard I've used in my life, I doubt I'll ever switch to anything else They are expensive, but absolutely worth it if you're typing for many hours every day.

https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/

terrorgen

We have an ergodox with matias alps key switches for over a decade, then last year, switched to a cheapino.

Not ours:

teamacc

Using this myself. Low-profile but mechanical switch.

https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-k5-max-qmk-via-wireless-custom-mechanical-keyboard?variant=40778479632473

Lee

Don't ask me to explain why, all I can tell you is that I love typing on this. I haven't even used Windows in so long.

david3

I used to use a Lily58 but switched to a Sofle now, with light linear switches. Also using a wacom tablet instead of a mouse. Very comfortable.

davide

@Lee said:
Don't ask me to explain why, all I can tell you is that I love typing on this. I haven't even used Windows in so long.

What model is this? The emacs M-x prefix (pressing left alt+x concurrently) wouldn't void the warranty of my wrist on this one. The spare Logitech that I'm using has convex key caps and slippery plastic, I slip off these keys 20% of the time:

Lee

@davide said:

@Lee said:
Don't ask me to explain why, all I can tell you is that I love typing on this. I haven't even used Windows in so long.

What model is this? The emacs M-x prefix (pressing left alt+x concurrently) wouldn't void the warranty of my wrist on this one. The spare Logitech that I'm using has convex key caps and slippery plastic, I slip off these keys 20% of the time:

It's the latest version of the Microsoft Surface Keyboard. I use either that, the Apple Magic Keyboard, or the Logitech MX Mechanical. I use them all depending on the task.

AnthonySmith

For me it has to be the dell sk-8135

I just got used to it around 2004/5 in the office, and it's all I have used since, I just replaced my first one I bought for home last year, I literally wore the letters off the first one after almost 20 years and the number pad got unpredictable, I expect to be using this new one (new old stock) one until around 2045 if I last that long.

davide

@AnthonySmith said:
For me it has to be the dell sk-8135

This keyboard tells me Anthony doesn't Emacs :D
My people and our needs must be a niche within a niche in the current market offering, I never met anyone in person using Emacs so we are doomed to perish.

eliphas

I'm 50. Used wristwraps at 20-25 when model M's were my preciouss. Now I allowed myself to have a keychron Q11 (red switch) with a kensington orbit tucked in the middle both connected with a usb hub glued on a laptop stand with a second monitor at the side, that's the best setup to spend for my wrists and eyesight. Happy with all of them. The default layout of the Q11 enables me to use the laptop keyboard at everywere else without fuss.

mm_

I was not ready for a mechanical keyboard and accidentally settled on a Cherry Stream Keyboard, which I'm happy with. (There are other layouts without that particular Enter key shape.)

davide

@mm_ said:
I was not ready for a mechanical keyboard and accidentally settled on a Cherry Stream Keyboard, which I'm happy with. (There are other layouts without that particular Enter key shape.)

This is something I'm bookmarking, I would have dismissed the "perfect slip resistance" of the key caps if I didn't damn my current Logitech for being so slippery. Glad some designer heard me barking at the moon.

bikegremlin

It is practically impossible to find decent-quality keyboards (or at least key caps) with Serbocroatian (Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian - same thing) key layout markings and ISO layout.

So, I gave up and reverted to my 90s habit of using ENG-US keymap, ANSI keyboard layout, and typing my native without the special characters (typing "cuska" instead of "ćuška").

Switching keymaps does mess with your "muscle memory" and unfortunately I am still not 100% certain what the best thing to do is. Some software (like DaVinci Resolve Studio) has key shortcuts set to be practical and intuitive on a ENG-US keymap, but not on a SRP/CRO keymap. Then again, every now and then I need to type something "serious" in my native and then I need to switch to SRP regardless.

Additional complication is the used laptop market where I often get stuff from Germany with ISO keyboard layout and German (umlat?) key markings.

For extra irony, the very need for keymap switching is what messes up my muscle memory, especially for the special, less frequently used characters (like "^" and similar) so having accurate key markings is important.

This leads us to my favourite keyboard (since the time I bought it, not sure about quality and robustness they make nowadays): Keychron Q6 QMK.
This link should open the very model, layout and switch type (blue mechanical, I write a lot and game less and less ):

https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q6-qmk-custom-mechanical-keyboard?variant=39990023323737

The turning knob is quite practical. It can be configured to do different stuff, but the default setting and what I use it for is volume control by turning it (pressing it can do mute/unmute). It is not a must have, but it's pretty neat.

Keycaps are not letting the light go through them, but are made of that harder plastic that feels more like the good (very, very) old keyboards.

Now, I fully understand that layout stuff is a top-tier first world problem, but it adds up and does get a bit annoying. Stuck between "the east" and "west" in both physical, geopolitical, ideological and philosophical terms.

lapua

@mm_ said:
I was not ready for a mechanical keyboard and accidentally settled on a Cherry Stream Keyboard, which I'm happy with. (There are other layouts without that particular Enter key shape.)

cherry solid german engineering!

davide

@bikegremlin: the laptop in my opening post uses ANSI with US mapping, it replaces the cluster of Italian diacritic keys with the several punctuation symbols that are more useful to me, yet typing correct Italian remains practical: the most frequent Italian diacritic is the grave accent, which is ~95% of the diacritics frequency distribution for Italian text, the remaining ~5% is the acute accent, and no other diacritics are typically used outside of specialized contexts. This results in the IT layout having 5 diacritic keys: à è é ì ò ù. To type these on a US ANSI, I customized the ~/.Xmodmap file to map alt gr + a to à, and ditto for the other vowels. With this mapping, the acute é is compose + e + ', which is three discrete key-presses, while the standard IT layout requires shift + è é. A software mapping of this kind may come in handy for Serbian if diacritics are not too frequent.

~/.Xmodmap:

keycode  26 = e E e E egrave Egrave egrave
keycode  30 = u U u U ugrave Ugrave ugrave
keycode  31 = i I i I igrave Igrave igrave
keycode  32 = o O o O ograve Ograve ograve
keycode  38 = a A a A agrave Agrave agrave

The compose sequence is unmodified from Debian:
/usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose:

<Multi_key> <E> <acute>: "É"   Eacute # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH ACUTE

mikho

@Lee said:
Don't ask me to explain why, all I can tell you is that I love typing on this. I haven't even used Windows in so long.

This is the one I use the most as well....
I've blamed myself for buying a MacBook with a 13" screen for 5 years now .... The times when I can't use an external screen and kayboard / mouse ... I suffer in silence.

rpqu

>mfw people using fancy setup
>kind of missing the K120 feel when typing on my new ThinkPad

bikegremlin

@davide said:
@bikegremlin: the laptop in my opening post uses ANSI with US mapping, it replaces the cluster of Italian diacritic keys with the several punctuation symbols that are more useful to me, yet typing correct Italian remains practical: the most frequent Italian diacritic is the grave accent, which is ~95% of the diacritics frequency distribution for Italian text, the remaining ~5% is the acute accent, and no other diacritics are typically used outside of specialized contexts. This results in the IT layout having 5 diacritic keys: à è é ì ò ù. To type these on a US ANSI, I customized the ~/.Xmodmap file to map alt gr + a to à, and ditto for the other vowels. With this mapping, the acute é is compose + e + ', which is three discrete key-presses, while the standard IT layout requires shift + è é. A software mapping of this kind may come in handy for Serbian if diacritics are not too frequent.

~/.Xmodmap:

keycode  26 = e E e E egrave Egrave egrave
keycode  30 = u U u U ugrave Ugrave ugrave
keycode  31 = i I i I igrave Igrave igrave
keycode  32 = o O o O ograve Ograve ograve
keycode  38 = a A a A agrave Agrave agrave

The compose sequence is unmodified from Debian:
/usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose:

<Multi_key> <E> <acute>: "É"   Eacute # LATIN CAPITAL LETTER E WITH ACUTE

_Plašim se da se te naše kvačice koriste prečesto u redovnom pisanju da bi korištenje alt tastera bilo praktično rešenje.
_

Translated:
I'm afraid that those hooks of ours are used too often for normal writing to make the use of the alt key be a practical solution.

WSS

I hope that you put the old keyboard back on since it's used to dissipate the heat.

bikegremlin

@WSS said:
I hope that you put the old keyboard back on since it's used to dissipate the heat.

Too hot already!

rpqu

@WSS said:
I hope that you put the old keyboard back on since it's used to dissipate the heat.

It's still on my old laptop, which normally operate on 120°F. When it was new, it's usable even when the CPU is >212°F.

davide

@mm_ said:
I was not ready for a mechanical keyboard and accidentally settled on a Cherry Stream Keyboard, which I'm happy with. (There are other layouts without that particular Enter key shape.)

Is this a membrane keyboard? It says scissor mechanism which I know is used in membrane keyboards with rubber domes, which I prefer to sliding switches. If so, it would be the closest match to what I'm looking for, which is:

• membrane / domes
• short key travel distance
• US ANSI
• wrist rest
• no numpad / compact
• wired

but if I really was in paradise, I'd ask for all of the above, plus:

• heating elements for comfortable typing in winter
• USB ports on the sides of the keyboard

but I know I might rather send a letter to Santa for this one.

mm_

@davide said:

@mm_ said:
I was not ready for a mechanical keyboard and accidentally settled on a Cherry Stream Keyboard, which I'm happy with. (There are other layouts without that particular Enter key shape.)

Is this a membrane keyboard? It says scissor mechanism which I know is used in membrane keyboards with rubber domes, which I prefer to sliding switches. If so, it would be the closest match to what I'm looking for, which is:

It's probably membrane, when I compared it to some other ordinary membrane keyboards.

davide

@mikho said:
I've blamed myself for buying a MacBook with a 13" screen for 5 years now .... The times when I can't use an external screen and kayboard / mouse ... I suffer in silence.

I fell in a 10" trap years ago, it was a tiny Intel Atom netbook that made typing a torture, you needed to hold fn to issue page-up or page-down.

Right now I'm window-shopping for this Toshiba, it has a 13" display but the keyboard seems wide enough, stretching from coast to coast, and has proper key positions and alignment for Emacs. I'll have to buy a US ANSI keyboard for it but seems a good candidate. If I'll get my hands on this one, I'll pop off the display and use external monitors, only buying it for the keyboard.

terrorgen

Anyone here use colemak or its derivatives?

mikho

@davide said:

@mikho said:
I've blamed myself for buying a MacBook with a 13" screen for 5 years now .... The times when I can't use an external screen and kayboard / mouse ... I suffer in silence.

I fell in a 10" trap years ago, it was a tiny Intel Atom netbook that made typing a torture, you needed to hold fn to issue page-up or page-down.

Right now I'm window-shopping for this Toshiba, it has a 13" display but the keyboard seems wide enough, stretching from coast to coast, and has proper key positions and alignment for Emacs. I'll have to buy a US ANSI keyboard for it but seems a good candidate. If I'll get my hands on this one, I'll pop off the display and use external monitors, only buying it for the keyboard.

I've been eyeing the new MacBook M5 for work, but the prices are insane right now. I could buy a used car for the same amount.
I'll probably stick with the M1 that I have, I'm used to the keyboard, but to toggle between windows is a pain.
Guess its a reason to work on one thing at a time, instead of jumping between tasks.