Any interest v-Dedicated servers?

InceptionHosting

Just wondering with a few topics and posts about large KVM's right now, I started to think, why not just get a small dedi?

Then the internal conversation with myself went along the lines of:

• people may not be confident enough to manage, setup, configure bare metal.
• people may not want the extra responsibility and consequences from hardware failures.
• people may enjoy having the convenience a control panel offers for managing the server.

So thinking about this what actual interest is there is v-dedicated servers?

Example package:

• E3-1270v6 (8 threads @ 3.80 Ghz) - DEDICATED
• 32 GB DDR4 Ram
• Dedicated Storage = 230GB pure NVMe Raid 1 or 460GB Raid 0 (between 1.8 and 3.6 GB/s sequential IO)
• Nested-virt enabled.
• 1 Gbit port
• /48 IPv6
• 1 x IPv4
• 30TB BW
• DDOS Protection
• Free Direct Ddmin

£59 /month

Optional extras:

£10 /month - Twice daily fully managed backup of the entire disk image for restore on request

This is just an example to work with, essentially a GIANT KVM but with fully dedicated hardware that would perform at around 99% native but with the convenience that comes with managing a VPS.

I am very interested in peoples thoughts around this such as:

• What would you remove?
• What would you add?
• What do you think of the price?
• What uses could you think of for it?

Mr_Tom

Looking at the specs is it basically a dedicated server with 1 single large KVM on it?

Not something I'd go for myself, but it would make management easier I guess having a full VPS panel for control over it.

Price looks good. I presume usage would be aimed at people who want a dedicated, but easy management panel like you said.

InceptionHosting

@Mr_Tom said:
Looking at the specs is it basically a dedicated server with 1 single large KVM on it?

Not something I'd go for myself, but it would make management easier I guess having a full VPS panel for control over it.

Price looks good. I presume usage would be aimed at people who want a dedicated, but easy management panel like you said.

yes, it really is dedicated essentially a semi-managed dedicated server with root access.

Just an example spec though.

mikho

The times I’ve been looking for a large KVM or a dedicated it usually comes down to one large disk in the dedicated or a KVM with smaller disk but with a ”proper” raid system.

The decision then has to be between disk activity or storage.

For storage, a dedicated. For disk activity, a KVM.

NanoG6

I’m interested to mini dedicated like kidechiré or multicore ARM

InceptionHosting

@NanoG6 said:
I’m interested to mini dedicated like kidechiré or multicore ARM

that is a very different thing.

Ouji

I've only had two dedis so far (both cancelled by now) and managing them was the same as managing a VPS for me. Hetzer (one of them) panel is by far the best panel for people that are used to VPS, you can do basically everything there, including asking for IPMI access which is pretty quick if you require it on non busy hours for Europe.

You can also ask them to load on your own ISO. Also had a DrServer panel with way less feature (by the price was low too, so I can understand that) and looking at it, it might be easier for some people to have full panel that is VPS-alike on these cases.

Anyway, for me, as long as I can reinstall/rescue and IPMI on a dedicated, that's enough for me.

bibble

@NanoG6 Wishosting seems to have what you want.
https://www.wishosting.com/order/main/packages/hybrid_servers/?group_id=5

umi

How can you get a small dedi with Ryzen CPU? The low end dedicated offers often run on outdated hardware. Atom? No thanks.

InceptionHosting

@umi said:
How can you get a small dedicated Ryzen CPU? The low end dedicated offers often run on outdated hardware. Atom? No thanks.

Are you saying you would be more interested in this if it was Ryzen based?

umi

Nope. The E3 and E5 are quite powerful too. I'm trying to say that low end dedis are quite ancient in terms of hardware.

dedipromo

I'd consider adding a /29 IP on it.

bibble

@hotlineservers have dedicated 4 Ryzen dedicated cores, 8GB, 160GB SSD @ $10/m. Think it's in Dallas.

InceptionHosting

@umi said:
Nope. The E3 and E5 are quite powerful too. I'm trying to say that low end dedis are quite ancient in terms of hardware.

ah ok, you mean that generally, people look for bigger VPS because you get better specs usually than a low end dedi. got it.

InceptionHosting

@bibble said:
@hotlineservers have dedicated 4 Ryzen dedicated cores, 8GB, 160GB SSD @ $10/m. Think it's in Dallas.

What sort of Ryzen, also is that actually cores or threads?

Please also keep in mind the example above the Ram, the hard disk IOPS and the link are also dedicated.

bibble

@AnthonySmith he doesn't seem to say. Probably 1700 $6.53 for E5x4 and plus $2.50 for Ryzenx4.

https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/1164/hotlineservers-55-off-for-life-all-ssd-kvm-vps-5-locations-no-coupon-needed/p1

WSCallum

@bibble said:
@hotlineservers have dedicated 4 Ryzen dedicated cores, 8GB, 160GB SSD @ $10/m. Think it's in Dallas.

Id be interested to see if you can actually push 4 Ryzen cores to their max constantly. If you consider they are on Ryzen 3900x at best, that gives 8 x $10 = $80 per month. Do you really think that covers the cost of that hardware? I don't.

bibble

@WSCallum would assume so, going by the price of Hetzner dedicated servers. @hotlineservers probably gets much cheaper too.

https://www.hetzner.de/dedicated-rootserver/matrix-ax

InceptionHosting

@bibble said:
@AnthonySmith he doesn't seem to say. Probably 1700 $6.53 for E5x4 and plus $2.50 for Ryzenx4.

https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/1164/hotlineservers-55-off-for-life-all-ssd-kvm-vps-5-locations-no-coupon-needed/p1

its a 3900 so 24 threads 4 x threads per $10 = $60 /month ($75 if extra $2.50 for ryzen upgrade as suggested) total revenue for the whole node which is less than cost so I think there is some confusion there, but I dont know with only limited information.

there is "dedicated" and there is "use it to 100% 24x7 but it is still contested" both get called dedicated rightly or wrongly.

bibble

Think he said once he gets them cheap from some where like Reliablesite ?

For some reason you have to be logged-in to the forum to view this thread: https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/1164/hotlineservers-55-off-for-life-all-ssd-kvm-vps-5-locations-no-coupon-needed/p1

InceptionHosting

@bibble said: Think he said once he gets them cheap from some where like Reliablesite

well its an exclusive offer I guess and could be a loss leader or limited stock, I don't know and not enough info to speculate but I do know I am sure the people that got the deal are happy and that's all that counts eh!

seriesn

@WSCallum said:

@bibble said:
@hotlineservers have dedicated 4 Ryzen dedicated cores, 8GB, 160GB SSD @ $10/m. Think it's in Dallas.

Id be interested to see if you can actually push 4 Ryzen cores to their max constantly. If you consider they are on Ryzen 3900x at best, that gives 8 x $10 = $80 per month. Do you really think that covers the cost of that hardware? I don't.

Don't underestimate the power of Windows sir. I have had couple of users who managed to push ryzen to the next level ?

3900x = 12 core/24 Thread.

WSCallum

@seriesn said:

@WSCallum said:

@bibble said:
@hotlineservers have dedicated 4 Ryzen dedicated cores, 8GB, 160GB SSD @ $10/m. Think it's in Dallas.

Id be interested to see if you can actually push 4 Ryzen cores to their max constantly. If you consider they are on Ryzen 3900x at best, that gives 8 x $10 = $80 per month. Do you really think that covers the cost of that hardware? I don't.

Don't underestimate the power of Windows sir. I have had couple of users who managed to push ryzen to the next level ?

3900x = 12 core/24 Thread.

Lets all test it out! (i meant push HLS apparent dedicated cores to the limit constantly)

My bad, I meant 3950x but the point still stands! $10 for 4 dedicated ryzen cores is total crap.

seriesn

@WSCallum said:

@seriesn said:

@WSCallum said:

@bibble said:
@hotlineservers have dedicated 4 Ryzen dedicated cores, 8GB, 160GB SSD @ $10/m. Think it's in Dallas.

Id be interested to see if you can actually push 4 Ryzen cores to their max constantly. If you consider they are on Ryzen 3900x at best, that gives 8 x $10 = $80 per month. Do you really think that covers the cost of that hardware? I don't.

Don't underestimate the power of Windows sir. I have had couple of users who managed to push ryzen to the next level ?

3900x = 12 core/24 Thread.

Lets all test it out! (i meant push HLS apparent dedicated cores to the limit constantly)

My bad, I meant 3950x but the point still stands! $10 for 4 dedicated ryzen cores is total crap.

Yeah it is. Super filthy cheap on a 2k hardware

nullroute

This is a gourmet VPS, just not.

AlwaysSkint

For about a decade, I ran a VPS on vmware with a large UK provider at a higher monthly cost than your opening post example. The system specifications were very much less: 2GB RAM, 2 dedicated CPU and 20+100GB HDD. The important factors were however, dedicated resources, high availability/failover and multiple IP addresses.
The specifications that you list are so far above that (excluding IPs) that I personally would find it well "over the top". In my eyes, the nested virtualisation seems promising but without at least a /29 allocation, seems rather pointless, unless used with NAT (and the added complications that brings).

Half the price with half the resources (excluding IP) with failover and/or high availability - I might just have to bite your hand off for it!
Just my perspective.

AlwaysSkint

LMFTFY:

@seriesn said:

@WSCallum said:

Don't underestimate the power bloat of Windows sir. I have had couple of users who managed to push ryzen to the next level ?

sureiam

Example specs are too beefy. People love dedicated cores and resources though. Additionally your right no one wants to manage bare metal and monitor raid for failure or beg a provider to upgrade the hardware.

Why not just choop that up? 1 dedicated thread, 4gb ram, 50gb nvme, 1ip, 7-8 pounds a month. Or is there not enough meat on they bone after the cost of ipv4?

sureiam

@bibble said:
Think he said once he gets them cheap from some where like Reliablesite ?

For some reason you have to be logged-in to the forum to view this thread: https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/1164/hotlineservers-55-off-for-life-all-ssd-kvm-vps-5-locations-no-coupon-needed/p1

Considering his site is down (at least currently) and they've only been around since February 2020 but have many locations. I'm gonna wait and see how it goes in a year then maybe consider them.

InceptionHosting

@AlwaysSkint

How is this then:

• E3-1270v6 (4 threads @ 3.80 Ghz) - DEDICATED
• 16 GB DDR4 Ram
• Dedicated Storage = 120GB pure NVMe
• Nested-virt enabled.
• 1 Gbit port DEDICATED
• /48 IPv6
• /29 IPv4
• 30TB BW
• DDOS Protection
• Free Direct Ddmin
• Own IP blocks routed for free
• BGP

£32.99 /month

Optional extras:

£5 /month - once daily fully managed backup of the entire disk image for restore on request

InceptionHosting

@sureiam said: Why not just choop that up? 1 dedicated thread, 4gb ram, 50gb nvme, 1ip, 7-8 pounds a month. Or is there not enough meat on they bone after the cost of ipv4?

Again that is just a VPS, I would only be interested in doing this with actually dedicated resources.

imok

I personally would like something like this:

8GB RAM
3 or 4 dedicated cores
120 GB SSD

I would run a busy website there without worrying about the peak visitors.

For a small Proxmox server I'd love something like:

16GB RAM
4 dedicated cores
180 GB SSD
/29

Both with 5TB should be fine.

If I need something bigger, I will definitely go with bare metal.

InceptionHosting

@imok so you are not so worried about dedicated iops or dedicated uplinks then you just want a VPS with dedicated cores?

InceptionHosting

Having looked again, probably the smallest I could go without compromising it much and it still remaining actually dedicated

• E3-1270v6 (4 threads @ 3.80 Ghz) - DEDICATED
• 8 GB DDR4 Ram
• 100 GB pure NVMe Dedicated
• Nested-virt enabled.
• 1 Gbit port DEDICATED
• /48 IPv6
• /29 IPv4
• 30TB BW
• DDOS Protection
• Free Direct Ddmin
• Own IP blocks routed for free
• BGP

£27.50 /month

Optional extras:

£5 /month - once daily fully managed backup of the entire disk image for restore on request

Prices are rough at this point and may be +/- 10% or so.

YellowHummingbird

@AnthonySmith said:
@AlwaysSkint

How is this then:

• E3-1270v6 (4 threads @ 3.80 Ghz) - DEDICATED
• 16 GB DDR4 Ram

£32.99 /month

This is much better looking to me - great for e.g. a few popular wordpress sites, with enough RAM to cache well and some fast storage. The backups idea is great. How long would backups be retained for?

sureiam

@AnthonySmith said:
@AlwaysSkint

How is this then:

• E3-1270v6 (4 threads @ 3.80 Ghz) - DEDICATED
• 16 GB DDR4 Ram
• Dedicated Storage = 120GB pure NVMe
• Nested-virt enabled.
• 1 Gbit port DEDICATED
• /48 IPv6
• /29 IPv4
• 30TB BW
• DDOS Protection
• Free Direct Ddmin
• Own IP blocks routed for free
• BGP

£32.99 /month

Optional extras:

£5 /month - once daily fully managed backup of the entire disk image for restore on request

Now that's tasty....

imok

@AnthonySmith said:
@imok so you are not so worried about dedicated iops or dedicated uplinks then you just want a VPS with dedicated cores?

To be honest, I'm not sure how iops affect my websites. I usually take 2 backups daily using rsync while website is really busy. I'm not sure if "dedicated iops" is something I need. But redundancy is a must for me.

Dedicated uplinks? Does not matter.

MichaelCee

@AnthonySmith said:
Having looked again, probably the smallest I could go without compromising it much and it still remaining actually dedicated

• E3-1270v6 (4 threads @ 3.80 Ghz) - DEDICATED
• 8 GB DDR4 Ram
• 100 GB pure NVMe Dedicated
• Nested-virt enabled.
• 1 Gbit port DEDICATED
• /48 IPv6
• /29 IPv4
• 30TB BW
• DDOS Protection
• Free Direct Ddmin
• Own IP blocks routed for free
• BGP

£27.50 /month

Optional extras:

£5 /month - once daily fully managed backup of the entire disk image for restore on request

Prices are rough at this point and may be +/- 10% or so.

That comes out a lot cheaper than some VPS so I don't see a problem with it.

Seeing shit like this makes me want money, so I can give it to you.

InceptionHosting

@YellowHummingbird said: This is much better looking to me - great for e.g. a few popular wordpress sites, with enough RAM to cache well and some fast storage. The backups idea is great. How long would backups be retained for?

I would imagine 7 days or 5 days + a monthly, something like that, essentially the way I am thinking is 1 additional data per NVMe and that is probably going to be a 1TB, so at LEAST 7 live backups at any time, but it would be managed so I could do it however you want, it would essentially just be a live disk image clone.

I appreciate the method is not perfect when it comes to rapidly changing databases but I have been doing it that way for 4 ish years now and having had to do around 100 individual restores of database-backed services not a single one has failed, the worst case has been a table that needed a repair, that happened once and I can't be sure it was not corrupt already at the time of backup.

@imok said: To be honest, I'm not sure how iops affect my websites. I usually take 2 backups daily using rsync while website is really busy. I'm not sure if "dedicated iops" is something I need. But redundancy is a must for me.

Dedicated uplinks? Does not matter.

Understood, not the right product for you then, you just need a VPS

@SmallWeb said: That comes out a lot cheaper than some VPS so I don't see a problem with it.

Seeing shit like this makes me want money, so I can give it to you.

Thanks, keep in mind that at the smaller end though that comes without raid, maybe the daily backups put you at ease and the tendency for NVMe (higher end ones) to almost always fail in read-only mode too, much harder to loose data.

MichaelCee

@AnthonySmith said: Thanks, keep in mind that at the smaller end though that comes without raid, maybe the daily backups put you at ease and the tendency for NVMe (higher end ones) to almost always fail in read-only mode too, much harder to loose data.

Without a doubt, I would see the backup addon as a must-have personally. The price is very little considering the importance of keeping backups.

Harambe

@SmallWeb said:

@AnthonySmith said: Thanks, keep in mind that at the smaller end though that comes without raid, maybe the daily backups put you at ease and the tendency for NVMe (higher end ones) to almost always fail in read-only mode too, much harder to loose data.

Without a doubt, I would see the backup addon as a must-have personally. The price is very little considering the importance of keeping backups.

+1 - I wish more providers offered affordable daily or even weekly snapshots. Would save me a ton of downtime/hassle if a restore was needed. Get running again and only have a few things to sync over vs. full rebuild.

BuyVM launched backups/snapshots in LV and I've already bought it for most of my VMs.

lentro

@AnthonySmith said:

@sureiam said: Why not just choop that up? 1 dedicated thread, 4gb ram, 50gb nvme, 1ip, 7-8 pounds a month. Or is there not enough meat on they bone after the cost of ipv4?

Again that is just a VPS, I would only be interested in doing this with actually dedicated resources.

I mean, you could do VPSes with dedicated resources like Hetzner Cloud's vCPU line

InceptionHosting

@lentro said:

@AnthonySmith said:

@sureiam said: Why not just choop that up? 1 dedicated thread, 4gb ram, 50gb nvme, 1ip, 7-8 pounds a month. Or is there not enough meat on they bone after the cost of ipv4?

Again that is just a VPS, I would only be interested in doing this with actually dedicated resources.

I mean, you could do VPSes with dedicated resources like Hetzner Cloud's vCPU line

Yeah but again, that is just a VPS, I am talking a step further with dedicated disk and links with a maximum of 2 people per physical server.

jam

What location?

I'm interested if Miami (or Florida)
for me could work:

• 2 to 4 cores dedicated.
• 8 to 16 GB DDR4 Ram
• 100 to 250 GB pure NVMe Dedicated
• Nested-virt enabled. (yes please, i use lxd/lxc)
• 1 Gbit port shared or DEDICATED
• /48 IPv6 (not needed but i am happy if can get it)
• /29 IPv4
• 30TB BW (i'm ok with 10 TB to 20 TB)
• DDOS Protection (yes please,)

no yearly payment.

teamacc

@AnthonySmith said:
@AlwaysSkint

How is this then:

• E3-1270v6 (4 threads @ 3.80 Ghz) - DEDICATED
• 16 GB DDR4 Ram
• Dedicated Storage = 120GB pure NVMe
• Nested-virt enabled.
• 1 Gbit port DEDICATED
• /48 IPv6
• /29 IPv4
• 30TB BW
• DDOS Protection
• Free Direct Ddmin
• Own IP blocks routed for free
• BGP

£32.99 /month

Optional extras:

£5 /month - once daily fully managed backup of the entire disk image for restore on request

Maybe too in-depth for this stage but:

Will you limit the "4 threads" that you're giving out here to the first 2 cores + associated HT "cores", or will you let the VM layer handle the part where that gets assigned? If the former, you get quite steady performance no matter what the second renter does (aside from maybe a tad of lower turbo), the latter might considerably slow you down if the other guy is doing something heavy.

InceptionHosting

@teamacc said: Will you limit the "4 threads" that you're giving out here to the first 2 cores + associated HT "cores", or will you let the VM layer handle the part where that gets assigned? If the former, you get quite steady performance no matter what the second renter does (aside from maybe a tad of lower turbo), the latter might considerably slow you down if the other guy is doing something heavy.

With only 2 people on the node at any given time I seriously doubt the difference would be human noticeable, things have advanced far enough now that we are talking a tiny fraction of a split second to allocate cpu time and if there is always available time then letting the host node handle it is probably fine.

BUT for the sake of the tiny amount of work pinning some cores it would be the former to take away any possible impacts or conflicts.

Each guest would have 4 threads consisting of 2 physical and 2 HT cores.

Islantay

Maybe should have hdd option.

willie

I've been using bare metal dedis for a while and haven't found them much different than VPS. If something goes wrong with the hardware (and this is happened), I put in a ticket and DC ops fix it. Single tenant VDS is mostly of interest for things like instant migration in case of hardware failure (using CEPH disks), or maybe for fast provisioning of new servers (I don't know what best practice is, but in principle you don't have to scrub the old disk before starting a new VDS for a new customer, since the virtualization layer can keep the old data from being accessed by the new VDS). The latter is more of interest for hourly rentals.

The machines being offered do look nice! I'm mostly interested in US location though.

vpsgeek3333

When do you plan to launch this?

vyas

@willie said:
I've been using bare metal dedis

InceptionHosting

@vpsgeek3333 said:
When do you plan to launch this?

Working out the finder details and the art of the possible atm. Not 100 sure when or if I will, it’s proving difficult to get firm prices for custom configs which I obviously need.