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  • Might be time to move back to Divi.

    Thanked by (1)Ympker
  • But is it fast yet? ;)

    Thanked by (1)Ympker
  • Mr_TomMr_Tom OG
    edited October 2021

    @flips said: It is, actually.

    Hmm, anyone got any real world sites that have been tested?

    My previous experience with Divi wasn't a good one, but I do get it could have been down to how it was used.

    Edit:

    The https://www.elegantthemes.com/blog/theme-releases/divi-performance URL references in the "divi is now fast" thread scores 15 for mobile. I understand it might not be using Divi for that page, etc, but still. That's why I'd like to see some real world examples where it's true.

  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @Lee said:
    Might be time to move back to Divi.

    Support is faster than ever. Big performance update some weeks/months ago. Now full-site front-end editing. Divi is really getting better and better imho. Let alone I last paid a bill related to Divi 3(?!) years ago when I bought the LTD.

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  • flipsflips OG
    edited October 2021

    @Mr_Tom said: The https://www.elegantthemes.com/blog/theme-releases/divi-performance URL references in the "divi is now fast" thread scores 15 for mobile. I understand it might not be using Divi for that page, etc, but still. That's why I'd like to see some real world examples where it's true.

    I've seen quite a bit of improvement with the Divi sites of my customers. (Divi now seems faster than most other themes we're running, which it certainly didn't before.)
    I'll dig up some URL when I get back (going AFK now), unless @Ympker beats me to it. :-)

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  • If it's improved that's great. But last time I dealt with divi people were raging about it and it was horrendously slow.

    Maybe my mind will be changed ;)

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer
    edited October 2021

    @Mr_Tom said:
    If it's improved that's great. But last time I dealt with divi people were raging about it and it was horrendously slow.

    Maybe my mind will be changed ;)

    It's probably all about what tool allows you to get your work done to your satisfaction. For me, personally, Divi has been that tool for quite a long while (on and off, granted) and I am happy to see them keep improving the tool. The improvement I was most happy about lately, was their support, though. While I remember 1-2 years ago, asking for support meant being redirected to FAQs or waiting for weeks for a reply, now they do reply in a matter of hours and often already have solved the issue by then logging in via remote support login (if you give them temporary access).

    Of course, everyone has their own needs and preferences, so what may work for one person, may not work for another.

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  • I'm all for tools which make development easy - although I do think there has been a lot of "making things easy for the developer at the cost of UX/speed/etc" - but that extends beyond just Divi. If they're trying to make things more optimised then they're going in the right direction.

    I should probs just setup a dev site and have a play with the newer versions.

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  • vyasvyas OGContent Writer
    edited October 2021

    Fullfrontal I like !

    oh wait.. wrong forum

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  • @Ympker said: last paid a bill related to Divi

    what is the cost for it? yearly.

  • edited October 2021

    @nickelodeon said:

    @Ympker said: last paid a bill related to Divi

    what is the cost for it? yearly.

    you can buy the lifetime subscription for $249
    annual subscription would be around $89

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer
    edited October 2021

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @nickelodeon said:

    @Ympker said: last paid a bill related to Divi

    what is the cost for it? yearly.

    you can buy the lifetime subscription for $249
    annual subscription would be around $89

    This. Thanks for chiming in @chocolateshirt :)

    Since Lifetime plan comes with unlimited domains, even for client sites, I haven't paid for Divi ever since my first purchase. I still receive all updates and support :)

    @Mr_Tom said:
    I'm all for tools which make development easy - although I do think there has been a lot of "making things easy for the developer at the cost of UX/speed/etc" - but that extends beyond just Divi. If they're trying to make things more optimised then they're going in the right direction.

    I should probs just setup a dev site and have a play with the newer versions.

    Well said. Also, you don't have to force yourself to like Divi. There are plenty of options out there. It just so happens that Divi works for me. That is, because I enjoy using it for many of my client projects and the clients are also happy. Keep in mind that my clients are 80-90% local clients, though. They are real estate businesses and services, artists, university professors, caretaker services, electricans etc. For them, it is more important that Divi is a swiss-army knife of cool features and lots of 1-click loadable templates than whether the site loads in 1 second or in 5 seconds. Perhaps, 5 seconds is exaggerated but I had nobody complain at, say 3-4 seconds yet (out of my local clients). Of course, there are online clients, too (Fiverr, LES, other platforms/connections). Those are often highly demanding and (for the most part) at the same time willing to pay pennies compared to local clients which is exactly why I focus on the local market with the little time I have aside from university and social life. That's not to say I haven't had good online-clients, too. But I am lucky enough to be in the position to choose my clients and I decided to focus on the local small-medium ranged businesses. Maybe that helps a bit put things into context :)

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG
    edited October 2021

    @Ympker said:

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @nickelodeon said:

    @Ympker said: last paid a bill related to Divi

    what is the cost for it? yearly.

    you can buy the lifetime subscription for $249
    annual subscription would be around $89

    This. Thanks for chiming in @chocolateshirt :)

    Since Lifetime plan comes with unlimited domains, even for client sites, I haven't paid for Divi ever since my first purchase. I still receive all updates and support :)

    @Mr_Tom said:
    I'm all for tools which make development easy - although I do think there has been a lot of "making things easy for the developer at the cost of UX/speed/etc" - but that extends beyond just Divi. If they're trying to make things more optimised then they're going in the right direction.

    I should probs just setup a dev site and have a play with the newer versions.

    Well said. Also, you don't have to force yourself to like Divi. There are plenty of options out there. It just so happens that Divi works for me. That is, because I enjoy using it for many of my client projects and the clients are also happy. Keep in mind that my clients are 80-90% local clients, though. They are real estate businesses and services, artists, university professors, caretaker services, electricans etc. For them, it is more important that Divi is a swiss-army knife of cool features and lots of 1-click loadable templates than whether the site loads in 1 second or in 5 seconds. Perhaps, 5 seconds is exaggerated but I had nobody complain at, say 3-4 seconds yet (out of my local clients). Of course, there are online clients, too (Fiverr, LES, other platforms/connections). Those are often highly demanding and (for the most part) at the same time willing to pay pennies compared to local clients which is exactly why I focus on the local market with the little time I have aside from university and social life. That's not to say I haven't had good online-clients, too. But I am lucky enough to be in the position to choose my clients and I decided to focus on the local small-medium ranged businesses. Maybe that helps a bit put things into context :)

    Those lifetimes, especially with products that have been in the market for over 7 years and seem likely to stay & survive, are quite tempting.

    Have you played with GeneratePress Pro?
    It gives a ton of options with a quite decent code, compared to Elementor and Elementor Pro (haven't tried Divi).
    Another upside is that it works fine with Elementor, so Elementor can be used for making one, or two pages, without any measurable impact on the rest of the site (fancy landing page etc.).

    Divi's lifetime fee is not really high, it should pay itself off after a 2nd website's been built with it - but 200 euros is 200 euros. :)
    That's a plus compared to Elementor Pro's pricing (when extra features are needed and custom coding can't be charged for).

    Seriously considering getting it, though.

    • Edit: slight minus goes for the cheap 10% discount timer countdown trick. Then again, in the long run, maybe it is good to have a greedy CEO and an "inventive" marketing department.
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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @bikegremlin said:

    @Ympker said:

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @nickelodeon said:

    @Ympker said: last paid a bill related to Divi

    what is the cost for it? yearly.

    you can buy the lifetime subscription for $249
    annual subscription would be around $89

    This. Thanks for chiming in @chocolateshirt :)

    Since Lifetime plan comes with unlimited domains, even for client sites, I haven't paid for Divi ever since my first purchase. I still receive all updates and support :)

    @Mr_Tom said:
    I'm all for tools which make development easy - although I do think there has been a lot of "making things easy for the developer at the cost of UX/speed/etc" - but that extends beyond just Divi. If they're trying to make things more optimised then they're going in the right direction.

    I should probs just setup a dev site and have a play with the newer versions.

    Well said. Also, you don't have to force yourself to like Divi. There are plenty of options out there. It just so happens that Divi works for me. That is, because I enjoy using it for many of my client projects and the clients are also happy. Keep in mind that my clients are 80-90% local clients, though. They are real estate businesses and services, artists, university professors, caretaker services, electricans etc. For them, it is more important that Divi is a swiss-army knife of cool features and lots of 1-click loadable templates than whether the site loads in 1 second or in 5 seconds. Perhaps, 5 seconds is exaggerated but I had nobody complain at, say 3-4 seconds yet (out of my local clients). Of course, there are online clients, too (Fiverr, LES, other platforms/connections). Those are often highly demanding and (for the most part) at the same time willing to pay pennies compared to local clients which is exactly why I focus on the local market with the little time I have aside from university and social life. That's not to say I haven't had good online-clients, too. But I am lucky enough to be in the position to choose my clients and I decided to focus on the local small-medium ranged businesses. Maybe that helps a bit put things into context :)

    Those lifetimes, especially with products that have been in the market for over 7 years and seem likely to stay & survive, are quite tempting.

    Have you played with GeneratePress Pro?
    It gives a ton of options with a quite decent code, compared to Elementor and Elementor Pro (haven't tried Divi).
    Another upside is that it works fine with Elementor, so Elementor can be used for making one, or two pages, without any measurable impact on the rest of the site (fancy landing page etc.).

    Divi's lifetime fee is not really high, it should pay itself off after a 2nd website's been built with it - but 200 euros is 200 euros. :)
    That's a plus compared to Elementor Pro's pricing (when extra features are needed and custom coding can't be charged for).

    Seriously considering getting it, though.

    • Edit: slight minus goes for the cheap 10% discount timer countdown trick. Then again, in the long run, maybe it is good to have a greedy CEO and an "inventive" marketing department.

    I have tried GeneratePress in the past and really liked it. I have no doubt GeneratePress Pro is awesome. It has a Website limit that comes with the LTD, though. It is a generous limit, but Divi is buy once and forget. With Elementors PR disaster on Reddit a while ago (pricing change and 999 websites instead of unlimited) I am happy I decided to stick with Divi. Not to say Elementor is bad. In fact, it has been around long enough and seems to have a big audience, too.. but I am happy to stick with one tool that works for me than having to adapt to new ones always. Divi changes its' UI/Settings often enough. From a money POV Divi has been long worth it for me. It continues to improve and has a huuge market share as well (google "builtwith Divi") so I don't see it going anywhere. I almost bought Blocksy Pro LTD but ended up not doing so. The free version is enough for me. I also like using Divi Theme because then I have theme&page builder AIO so when I contact Divi support they know exactly what I am using and usually fix things fast. Divi Builder Plugin + other theme could potentially have more issues.

    Marketing is marketing :D

  • vyasvyas OGContent Writer
    edited October 2021

    Let us see:

    1. Generatepres Pro has 500 website limit, so the below numbers become approximately half. All for annual fee of US Dollars 50.

    2. For elementor:

    Each of the 999 sites on elementor requires 2 Hours for designing, atleast two hour/month for content, updates, backups/maintenance, etc. Assume two years of 'life' for that site before a major refresh/update. Or Elementor gets replaced by a new game in town.
    So,

    999 websites x
    [ (2 hrs/website design +(24 hours/year in content, updates) *2 years]

    = 999 * 50 hrs approx. say 50,000 hours

    50,000 hours * 8 US Dollar/hour min wage = USD 400,000 .

    **People bitch over 999 site limit and not worry about earning 400,000 US Dollars to utilise that limit ? **

    Another way to look at it:

    Assuming one is running a WP sweatshop that employs people at 12 K Dollars/year salary. Each person works 50 hours/week, 50 weeks/year = 2,500 hours. In a sweatshop, typically working hours are 60 hours/week, so say 3,000 hours/ year.

    The same 50,000 hours require 50,000/3,000 = 17 full time employees at minimum. Plus one or two supervisors, account managers, etc. Say 20 FTEs.

    Two year salary becomes

    20 * 12,000 * 2 = US Dollars 480,000.

    Add Payroll taxes, overheads, increments in salary, marketing expenses... etc. I see human resources cost as north of US Dollars 1 million over two years.

    Edit:
    1. Reformatted on Laptop. Checked numbers for sanity.
    2. Costs for bandwidth, hosting, storage for backup, licenses for plugins, themes, license for images/videos, etc. if any... not included.

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer
    edited October 2021

    @vyas said:
    999 webistes* (2 hrs/website design- one time+ (24 hours/year in content, updates) 2 years)
    = 999
    50 hrs approx. say 50,000 hrs

    50,000 hours* 8 hrs min wage = USD 400,000.

    People bitch over 999 site limit and not worry about earning 400,000 US Dollars to utilise that limit ?

    For me, the site limit is not the only factor, of course. In terms of licensing
    Divi is just easier to setup and forget (various test sites, domains etc.). But, yeah.. there was quite the outcry on Reddit iirc.

  • WolveixWolveix OG
    edited October 2021

    +1 for GeneratePress Pro & GenerateBlocks Pro. We build all of our client sites using them. They're performant, and highly customizable. I bought a lifetime license a while back. The only other thing we usually have is EWWW.io for image optimization & CDN, as well as their SWIS caching plugin. All in all, a super slim aand fast stack.

    I'm keeping an eye on Divi, but definitely waiting for real-world examples :D

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer
    edited October 2021

    @Wolveix said:
    +1 for GeneratePress Pro & GenerateBlocks Pro. We build all of our client sites using them. They're performant, and highly customizable. I bought a lifetime license a while back. The only other thing we usually have is EWWW.io for image optimization & CDN, as well as their SWIS caching plugin. All in all, a super slim aand fast stack.

    I'm keeping an eye on Divi, but definitely waiting for real-world examples :D

    How is EWWW from your experience? Using ShortPixel myself :P

    Regarding real-world examples, you can have a look at https://trends.builtwith.com/framework/Divi

    Just click on the respective links in this part of the website I linked above:

    Divi Customers
    Get access to data on 3,496,413 websites that are Divi Customers. We know of 2,221,484 live websites using Divi and an additional 1,274,929 sites that used Divi historically and 105,919 websites in Germany.

  • vyasvyas OGContent Writer

    @Wolveix said:
    The only other thing we usually have is EWWW.io for image optimization & CDN, as well as their SWIS caching plugin.

    Did you get the "Lifetime" deal from Appsumo?

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  • @Ympker said: How is EWWW from your experience? Using ShortPixel myself :P

    No complaints here! Performance is my number one deciding factor for everything, and EWWW does not disappoint.

    @vyas said: Did you get the "Lifetime" deal from Appsumo?

    I did indeed :)

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @Wolveix said:

    @Ympker said: How is EWWW from your experience? Using ShortPixel myself :P

    No complaints here! Performance is my number one deciding factor for everything, and EWWW does not disappoint.

    @vyas said: Did you get the "Lifetime" deal from Appsumo?

    I did indeed :)

    I also saw the EWWW LTD on AS, but I got the ShortPixel LTD a while back, so didn't really need it. Still, good to know of reliable alternatives out there ;)

  • @Ympker - what @vyas said: I see the 500 website limit as: "we give you a practically unlimited number of websites, but don't want the whole Serbia/India/whatever community to be working using only one license."

    That's what it boils down to. Once I've built 400 websites, with a monthly maintenance fee (don't use my license otherwise, expecting a client to provide their own) - I should be able to easily pay for another lifetime (if available), or yearly subscription, whichever is available.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, Divi too could be limited to 500 or so websites.

    @Wolveix Generate Blocks Pro doesn't have a lifetime license, which could be good - it guarantees that the company can remain profitable and in business.
    Though, so far I did all I needed to do with GeneratePress Pro alone + Elementor for a page, or two that require really "exotic" design that can't easily be done without (much) coding. Still, it's good knowing that option is available - those products have served me superbly, being stable, fast performing and exceptionally well documented.

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @bikegremlin said:
    @Ympker - what @vyas said: I see the 500 website limit as: "we give you a practically unlimited number of websites, but don't want the whole Serbia/India/whatever community to be working using only one license."

    That's what it boils down to. Once I've built 400 websites, with a monthly maintenance fee (don't use my license otherwise, expecting a client to provide their own) - I should be able to easily pay for another lifetime (if available), or yearly subscription, whichever is available.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, Divi too could be limited to 500 or so websites.

    @Wolveix Generate Blocks Pro doesn't have a lifetime license, which could be good - it guarantees that the company can remain profitable and in business.
    Though, so far I did all I needed to do with GeneratePress Pro alone + Elementor for a page, or two that require really "exotic" design that can't easily be done without (much) coding. Still, it's good knowing that option is available - those products have served me superbly, being stable, fast performing and exceptionally well documented.

    Trying to avoid mass usage of a license is certainly a point that would explain why they have these limits in place.

    The scenario you and @vyas described makes sense, however, if the lifetime deal is going to disappear and you'd have to switch to yearly pricing you would have to adapt your (future) pricing again. Not to say that's not to be expected because, obviously, things are bound to change..but I still prefer the ease of mind of "unlimited" LTDs. Usually, LTDs are often hit or miss, however, Divi and some other deals I have purchased have very well gotten me their money's worth :) As a small business, I am happy about every LTD/solution that helps me ease my workflow and does not add a recurring fee to my invoice list. Some LTDs like Qubely Page Builder seem to just have been abandoned, though, so there is definitely an advantage to monthly/yearly licensing and site limits :P

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  • @Ympker said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    @Ympker - what @vyas said: I see the 500 website limit as: "we give you a practically unlimited number of websites, but don't want the whole Serbia/India/whatever community to be working using only one license."

    That's what it boils down to. Once I've built 400 websites, with a monthly maintenance fee (don't use my license otherwise, expecting a client to provide their own) - I should be able to easily pay for another lifetime (if available), or yearly subscription, whichever is available.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, Divi too could be limited to 500 or so websites.

    @Wolveix Generate Blocks Pro doesn't have a lifetime license, which could be good - it guarantees that the company can remain profitable and in business.
    Though, so far I did all I needed to do with GeneratePress Pro alone + Elementor for a page, or two that require really "exotic" design that can't easily be done without (much) coding. Still, it's good knowing that option is available - those products have served me superbly, being stable, fast performing and exceptionally well documented.

    Trying to avoid mass usage of a license is certainly a point that would explain why they have these limits in place.

    The scenario you and @vyas described makes sense, however, if the lifetime deal is going to disappear and you'd have to switch to yearly pricing you would have to adapt your (future) pricing again. Not to say that's not to be expected because, obviously, things are bound to change..but I still prefer the ease of mind of "unlimited" LTDs. Usually, LTDs are often hit or miss, however, Divi and some other deals I have purchased have very well gotten me their money's worth :) As a small business, I am happy about every LTD/solution that helps me ease my workflow and does not add a recurring fee to my invoice list. Some LTDs like Qubely Page Builder seem to just have been abandoned, though, so there is definitely an advantage to monthly/yearly licensing and site limits :P

    IMO - nothing is unlimited and "lifetime" as in "your lifetime."
    I always calculate it as a more-less risky investment, expecting for the product to be useful long enough for the "lifetime" to end up costing less than the X yearly renewal prices it costs.

    As for the pricing - I have never raced to the bottom. Being too cheap seems to attract problematic clients, and it makes you work for peanuts. All the prices must cover the expected, regular yearly renewal costs, while lifetimes that end up being a "hit" serve as a payoff to my investment.

    This "logic" does two things:
    Makes sure I don't have too much work on my hands. :)
    Reduces the risk of having to charge clients with any price hikes.
    I do the opposite of what most marketing experts recommend: start with rather high prices, and few promises, then aim to reduce the prices if the client relation is a mutually pleasant one, as well as try to deliver more than promised.

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  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @bikegremlin said:

    @Ympker said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    @Ympker - what @vyas said: I see the 500 website limit as: "we give you a practically unlimited number of websites, but don't want the whole Serbia/India/whatever community to be working using only one license."

    That's what it boils down to. Once I've built 400 websites, with a monthly maintenance fee (don't use my license otherwise, expecting a client to provide their own) - I should be able to easily pay for another lifetime (if available), or yearly subscription, whichever is available.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, Divi too could be limited to 500 or so websites.

    @Wolveix Generate Blocks Pro doesn't have a lifetime license, which could be good - it guarantees that the company can remain profitable and in business.
    Though, so far I did all I needed to do with GeneratePress Pro alone + Elementor for a page, or two that require really "exotic" design that can't easily be done without (much) coding. Still, it's good knowing that option is available - those products have served me superbly, being stable, fast performing and exceptionally well documented.

    Trying to avoid mass usage of a license is certainly a point that would explain why they have these limits in place.

    The scenario you and @vyas described makes sense, however, if the lifetime deal is going to disappear and you'd have to switch to yearly pricing you would have to adapt your (future) pricing again. Not to say that's not to be expected because, obviously, things are bound to change..but I still prefer the ease of mind of "unlimited" LTDs. Usually, LTDs are often hit or miss, however, Divi and some other deals I have purchased have very well gotten me their money's worth :) As a small business, I am happy about every LTD/solution that helps me ease my workflow and does not add a recurring fee to my invoice list. Some LTDs like Qubely Page Builder seem to just have been abandoned, though, so there is definitely an advantage to monthly/yearly licensing and site limits :P

    IMO - nothing is unlimited and "lifetime" as in "your lifetime."
    I always calculate it as a more-less risky investment, expecting for the product to be useful long enough for the "lifetime" to end up costing less than the X yearly renewal prices it costs.

    As for the pricing - I have never raced to the bottom. Being too cheap seems to attract problematic clients, and it makes you work for peanuts. All the prices must cover the expected, regular yearly renewal costs, while lifetimes that end up being a "hit" serve as a payoff to my investment.

    This "logic" does two things:
    Makes sure I don't have too much work on my hands. :)
    Reduces the risk of having to charge clients with any price hikes.
    I do the opposite of what most marketing experts recommend: start with rather high prices, and few promises, then aim to reduce the prices if the client relation is a mutually pleasant one, as well as try to deliver more than promised.

    That's probably the way I would interpret lifetime deals as well. If by the end they have given me back my money's worth and they've made life easier for me, I couldn't ask for more. Just like Divi, I don't expect @MikePT lifetime, Glorify, YayImages or Keepsolid VPN (and other VPNs) to last forever. But all of these have already paid back my money's worth.

    A race to the bottom does indeed not attract healthy clients. Hence I adjusted my pricing quite a bit in the past.

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  • @Ympker said:

    @bikegremlin said:

    @Ympker said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    @Ympker - what @vyas said: I see the 500 website limit as: "we give you a practically unlimited number of websites, but don't want the whole Serbia/India/whatever community to be working using only one license."

    That's what it boils down to. Once I've built 400 websites, with a monthly maintenance fee (don't use my license otherwise, expecting a client to provide their own) - I should be able to easily pay for another lifetime (if available), or yearly subscription, whichever is available.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, Divi too could be limited to 500 or so websites.

    @Wolveix Generate Blocks Pro doesn't have a lifetime license, which could be good - it guarantees that the company can remain profitable and in business.
    Though, so far I did all I needed to do with GeneratePress Pro alone + Elementor for a page, or two that require really "exotic" design that can't easily be done without (much) coding. Still, it's good knowing that option is available - those products have served me superbly, being stable, fast performing and exceptionally well documented.

    Trying to avoid mass usage of a license is certainly a point that would explain why they have these limits in place.

    The scenario you and @vyas described makes sense, however, if the lifetime deal is going to disappear and you'd have to switch to yearly pricing you would have to adapt your (future) pricing again. Not to say that's not to be expected because, obviously, things are bound to change..but I still prefer the ease of mind of "unlimited" LTDs. Usually, LTDs are often hit or miss, however, Divi and some other deals I have purchased have very well gotten me their money's worth :) As a small business, I am happy about every LTD/solution that helps me ease my workflow and does not add a recurring fee to my invoice list. Some LTDs like Qubely Page Builder seem to just have been abandoned, though, so there is definitely an advantage to monthly/yearly licensing and site limits :P

    IMO - nothing is unlimited and "lifetime" as in "your lifetime."
    I always calculate it as a more-less risky investment, expecting for the product to be useful long enough for the "lifetime" to end up costing less than the X yearly renewal prices it costs.

    As for the pricing - I have never raced to the bottom. Being too cheap seems to attract problematic clients, and it makes you work for peanuts. All the prices must cover the expected, regular yearly renewal costs, while lifetimes that end up being a "hit" serve as a payoff to my investment.

    This "logic" does two things:
    Makes sure I don't have too much work on my hands. :)
    Reduces the risk of having to charge clients with any price hikes.
    I do the opposite of what most marketing experts recommend: start with rather high prices, and few promises, then aim to reduce the prices if the client relation is a mutually pleasant one, as well as try to deliver more than promised.

    That's probably the way I would interpret lifetime deals as well. If by the end they have given me back my money's worth and they've made life easier for me, I couldn't ask for more. Just like Divi, I don't expect @MikePT lifetime, Glorify, YayImages or Keepsolid VPN (and other VPNs) to last forever. But all of these have already paid back my money's worth.

    A race to the bottom does indeed not attract healthy clients. Hence I adjusted my pricing quite a bit in the past.

    Yes - you just get a pleasant surprise if a lifetime ends up saving more than 50% compared to paying yearly renewals.
    Also - for me, it is great not having to think about yearly renewals. Not just for the money-saving reasons, but for "did the payment go through, when's the next payment for which service..." etc.

    Right now I'm paying for The SEO Framework and asked (more than once I think) if it's possible to just pay for more than one year in advance, or at least put some pre-paid account funds, just so I needn't worry if my bank had any hiccups clearing the payment.

    I've even got my gas and electricity bills paid for one year in advance (there must be some diagnosis for this :) ).

    Thanked by (1)Ympker

    I can't tell you which hosting to buy, but I've written in great detail about the providers I've used so far:
    BikeGremlin web-hosting reviews

  • Here's a real world example of Divi's performance: https://network.unixfy.net ;)
    94/100 pagespeed mobile and 99/100 desktop.

    Thanked by (2)Ympker bikegremlin
  • bikegremlinbikegremlin ModeratorOG
    edited October 2021

    @Unixfy said:
    Here's a real world example of Divi's performance: https://network.unixfy.net ;)
    94/100 pagespeed mobile and 99/100 desktop.

    For me at least, when making a page with very few elements, it is easy to get very high scores.
    What makes the difference between various page builders is how they score when you put more bells & whistles on a page/site.

    Just as important:
    Performance with real, and simulated real visitors, on a "basic hosting account." Good pagespeed scores don't necessarily mean that a WordPress website will not overload the server and/or perform poorly with a relatively moderate number of visitors.

    Elementor used to be quite awful when it comes to this, now it's not too bad. I intend to give Divi a test as well when the first project comes along (hopefully, not anytime soon, I've got a lot on my hands nowadays). :)

    I can't tell you which hosting to buy, but I've written in great detail about the providers I've used so far:
    BikeGremlin web-hosting reviews

  • YmpkerYmpker OGContent Writer

    @bikegremlin said:

    @Ympker said:

    @bikegremlin said:

    @Ympker said:

    @bikegremlin said:
    @Ympker - what @vyas said: I see the 500 website limit as: "we give you a practically unlimited number of websites, but don't want the whole Serbia/India/whatever community to be working using only one license."

    That's what it boils down to. Once I've built 400 websites, with a monthly maintenance fee (don't use my license otherwise, expecting a client to provide their own) - I should be able to easily pay for another lifetime (if available), or yearly subscription, whichever is available.

    So, as far as I'm concerned, Divi too could be limited to 500 or so websites.

    @Wolveix Generate Blocks Pro doesn't have a lifetime license, which could be good - it guarantees that the company can remain profitable and in business.
    Though, so far I did all I needed to do with GeneratePress Pro alone + Elementor for a page, or two that require really "exotic" design that can't easily be done without (much) coding. Still, it's good knowing that option is available - those products have served me superbly, being stable, fast performing and exceptionally well documented.

    Trying to avoid mass usage of a license is certainly a point that would explain why they have these limits in place.

    The scenario you and @vyas described makes sense, however, if the lifetime deal is going to disappear and you'd have to switch to yearly pricing you would have to adapt your (future) pricing again. Not to say that's not to be expected because, obviously, things are bound to change..but I still prefer the ease of mind of "unlimited" LTDs. Usually, LTDs are often hit or miss, however, Divi and some other deals I have purchased have very well gotten me their money's worth :) As a small business, I am happy about every LTD/solution that helps me ease my workflow and does not add a recurring fee to my invoice list. Some LTDs like Qubely Page Builder seem to just have been abandoned, though, so there is definitely an advantage to monthly/yearly licensing and site limits :P

    IMO - nothing is unlimited and "lifetime" as in "your lifetime."
    I always calculate it as a more-less risky investment, expecting for the product to be useful long enough for the "lifetime" to end up costing less than the X yearly renewal prices it costs.

    As for the pricing - I have never raced to the bottom. Being too cheap seems to attract problematic clients, and it makes you work for peanuts. All the prices must cover the expected, regular yearly renewal costs, while lifetimes that end up being a "hit" serve as a payoff to my investment.

    This "logic" does two things:
    Makes sure I don't have too much work on my hands. :)
    Reduces the risk of having to charge clients with any price hikes.
    I do the opposite of what most marketing experts recommend: start with rather high prices, and few promises, then aim to reduce the prices if the client relation is a mutually pleasant one, as well as try to deliver more than promised.

    That's probably the way I would interpret lifetime deals as well. If by the end they have given me back my money's worth and they've made life easier for me, I couldn't ask for more. Just like Divi, I don't expect @MikePT lifetime, Glorify, YayImages or Keepsolid VPN (and other VPNs) to last forever. But all of these have already paid back my money's worth.

    A race to the bottom does indeed not attract healthy clients. Hence I adjusted my pricing quite a bit in the past.

    Yes - you just get a pleasant surprise if a lifetime ends up saving more than 50% compared to paying yearly renewals.
    Also - for me, it is great not having to think about yearly renewals. Not just for the money-saving reasons, but for "did the payment go through, when's the next payment for which service..." etc.

    Right now I'm paying for The SEO Framework and asked (more than once I think) if it's possible to just pay for more than one year in advance, or at least put some pre-paid account funds, just so I needn't worry if my bank had any hiccups clearing the payment.

    I've even got my gas and electricity bills paid for one year in advance (there must be some diagnosis for this :) ).

    Indeed. Considering I bought Keepsolid lifetime in 2016/2017 (?) for some 39$ and before I had a NordVPN Sub which renewed at some 90$/year (?) it's really nice to still have it. They also seem to be pretty stable just like my Windscribe VPN lifetime deal probably will last just some years longer (hopefully) ;)

    Actually, I also like paying in advance rather to "forget" about having to check if renewal worked, too. I also often like paying longer terms in advance to not have to check for monthly outgoing cash that much and whether payment got declined/canceled.

    I think having your electronic bill and gas paid in advance would also be nice.

    Thanked by (1)bikegremlin
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