Surely a stupid noob question but.....

As is obvious I am a new addict (Hi my name is Bill and it's been almost 24 hours since I bought and idled a server.........) and I have a question I can't seem to find the answer too. Had an issue with a special I got on here for a vps and it got me to thinking about the normal person view of servers. Short thing was I was compiling some code on gcc and wasn't paying that much attention to what I was compiling and just cloned the git I was looking at and went go. (adult add is thing) The git was xmrig and of course about 20% of the way to compiling it was suspended for mining. Explained to support what happened and they were not super nice but it is what it is. Ok here is what I wanted to ask about after the un-needed story time. I get that a vps is a shared core for all intents and purposes and a kvm is access to the bare metal core. Reading through lots of tos (please kill me) and it seems that all vps say no mining and most if not all kvm say nothing about it at all. Is it because a vps provider is hedging they can charge 10 people for a single core and the kvm providers are just like "this is a fair price for the core, you do you boo"? Not trying to say either is wrong or right just attempting to understand the dynamic and would love opinions on it not only from you guys that actually know what your doing but providers as well. So us norms with a new addiction can understand it.

Comments

  • JabJab
    edited April 2023

    Holy wall of text. Are you really asking if shared server is shared and you can't hammer down a core while paying peanuts and you blame VPS providers for it?
    Shit costs - buying hardware, power, license, support, network - if you split it between people it's cheaper, but then you can't sell them dedicated (I mean you shouldn't :D) resources.

    Thanked by (1)Khalequzzaman

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  • @Jab said:
    Holy wall of text. Are you really asking if shared server is shared and you can't hammer down a core while paying peanuts and you blame VPS providers for it?
    Shit costs - buying hardware, power, license, support, network - if you split it between people it's cheaper, but then you can't sell them dedicated (I mean you shouldn't :D) resources.

    Yeah I am wordy on occasion lol. No I'm not saying peanuts and all of that. I guess I am asking if I understand the business model correctly. Like I said I don't think either is right or wrong I just see two different business models and want to make sure I understand it correctly is all. Something I have learned in life in my job (kinda techie and specialized yet redneck) is the simple answer is not always exactly correct on something like this. Just seems to simple is all to me.

  • rootroot OG
    edited April 2023

    @schism said:

    @Jab said:
    Holy wall of text. Are you really asking if shared server is shared and you can't hammer down a core while paying peanuts and you blame VPS providers for it?
    Shit costs - buying hardware, power, license, support, network - if you split it between people it's cheaper, but then you can't sell them dedicated (I mean you shouldn't :D) resources.

    Yeah I am wordy on occasion lol. No I'm not saying peanuts and all of that. I guess I am asking if I understand the business model correctly. Like I said I don't think either is right or wrong I just see two different business models and want to make sure I understand it correctly is all. Something I have learned in life in my job (kinda techie and specialized yet redneck) is the simple answer is not always exactly correct on something like this. Just seems to simple is all to me.

    Imagine a dedicated server like a bread. A cloud server (or virtual server, or VPS) is just a slice of this bread. You can not eat a slice and feel full as if you ate the whole bread. You can not consume the whole bread either, because you only bought a slice. If you want the whole bread and need the whole bread, then buy the whole bread even though it is much more expensive.

    Please note there are many providers here on LowEndSpirit who can come up with offers regarding dedicated servers tailed for your needs. All you have to do is simply ask.

    Thanked by (2)Khalequzzaman schism

    How are you... online?

  • cybertechcybertech OGBenchmark King

    ...

    yes.

    Thanked by (1)schism

    I bench YABS 24/7/365 unless it's a leap year.

  • Think of it as an airplane. If you pay for one seat, you use one seat. There is nothing stopping you from using parts of the seats next to you as well, but the people paying for those seats surely will not appreciate it and you will most likely get banned from flying again.

    VPS's are not for people that need 100% of the resources, that's why they are cheap compared to a dedicated server.

    Thanked by (1)schism
  • Also, kvm is a virtualization technology, its a vps. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say when you differentiate between vps and kvm but I'm pretty sure you got something wrong there.

  • @Jab said:
    Holy wall...

    Thanked by (1)root
  • Why is it that everyone who gets banned for mining just "happened" to randomly chose the xmrig project to download and build, even though none of them had any interest in actually mining.

    Just be honest, you got caught out fair and sqaure.

  • @root said: Imagine a dedicated server like a bread.

    @rcy026 said: Think of it as an airplane.

    I prefer to think of it as a dolphin.

  • @tetech said:
    I prefer to think of it as a dolphin.

    Why would you cut or slice a dolphin into smaller pieces?

    Thanked by (2)imok edip

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  • @root said:

    @tetech said:
    I prefer to think of it as a dolphin.

    Why would you cut or slice a dolphin into smaller pieces?

    It's cheaper than tuna

    Thanked by (1)bugrakoc
  • @ralf said:

    @root said:

    @tetech said:
    I prefer to think of it as a dolphin.

    Why would you cut or slice a dolphin into smaller pieces?

    It's cheaper than tuna

    So... The tuna ate a whole dolphin?

    How are you... online?

  • @root said:

    @tetech said:
    I prefer to think of it as a dolphin.

    Why would you cut or slice a dolphin into smaller pieces?

    I would not do that, I like dolphins.

  • Hi Bill - I am trusting that you are truly a beginner with VPSs and not a troll.

    A dedicated server is a physical computer. If you need the full resources of that computer, rent a dedicated server.

    A dedicated server can also be divided into many VPSs that share the resources of the dedicated server. Each VPS uses a "fair share" of the dedicated server. A VPS may need a burst of processing power for a short time, and the system will manage the load as the different VPSs have an occasional burst here and there. Problems can occur if a VPS uses too much of the dedicated server's processor resources for a steady, long period of time and not just a burst. The other VPSs on that same dedicated server will suffer, because they won't get their fair share of the processing power that they reasonably expect. The VPS provider detects those abuse conditions and deals with it, usually by shutting down the abusive VPS.

    Do you know what "process" and "thread" mean? A server runs many processes at the same time. Each process has one or more threads of execution. The system is constantly creating, running, suspending, resuming, and destroying processes and threads. Every event may trigger new processes and threads - such as typing a key on the keyboard, running a command, a request arrives at your VPS's website from a browser out on the internet, etc.

    The number of VPS cores you rent determines how many processes and threads can run at the same time. More cores means that more processes and threads can run concurrently. Fewer cores MAY affect VPS performance, depending on what you are running. Fewer cores means that more processes and threads may be suspended, waiting to start or resume.
    -> Renting a certain number of VPS cores does not give you the full use of those cores at "100% CPU" all the time. You must share those cores fairly with others.

    KVM is one type of virtualization software. Another popular virtualization software is OpenVZ. There are others, but I have not seen them in a while.

    KVM looks like a "bare metal" computer to the customer. You can install any compatible operating system on KVM - Linux, Windows, etc. Some providers may restrict you to Linux only, so know the terms. (OpenVZ is like having your own system, but with a shared kernel. That means that OpenVZ can only run Linux and you must use a template from the choices offered by the provider to install it.)

    I am not familiar with "xmrig", but when I searched for it, I found a lot of references to mining, so I am not surprised that your VPS provider cut you off. My feeling is that you VPS hammered the CPU at 100% for a long, steady period. In other words, you used an unfair share of the processor; it was not a short burst.

    VPS providers do not always say "no mining" but if you look at their Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Policy, you should find something that excludes using "an excessive amount of resources" or some other generalized terms like that. Translated, it means "no mining."

    If you want to use your VPS for mining, you MUST get the provider's permission first. They won't allow it on a VPS, but they may offer to sell you a dedicated server, where you can use 100% of all cores 24 x 7. Mining or not, read the terms of service and provider's other policies carefully before signing up. There are usually a variety of restrictions for what you can and cannot do with rented servers - whether dedicated or VPS or something else. Mining is a common restriction, obviously.

    Hint:
    If you can make a profit by mining with a VPS, ask yourself why the VPS provider doesn't convert all their VPSs into mining operations and eliminate all those pesky customers and service costs?

    Does that help?

    Thanked by (3)schism sh97 chimichurri
  • @root said:

    @schism said:

    @Jab said:
    Holy wall of text. Are you really asking if shared server is shared and you can't hammer down a core while paying peanuts and you blame VPS providers for it?
    Shit costs - buying hardware, power, license, support, network - if you split it between people it's cheaper, but then you can't sell them dedicated (I mean you shouldn't :D) resources.

    Yeah I am wordy on occasion lol. No I'm not saying peanuts and all of that. I guess I am asking if I understand the business model correctly. Like I said I don't think either is right or wrong I just see two different business models and want to make sure I understand it correctly is all. Something I have learned in life in my job (kinda techie and specialized yet redneck) is the simple answer is not always exactly correct on something like this. Just seems to simple is all to me.

    Imagine a dedicated server like a bread. A cloud server (or virtual server, or VPS) is just a slice of this bread. You can not eat a slice and feel full as if you ate the whole bread. You can not consume the whole bread either, because you only bought a slice. If you want the whole bread and need the whole bread, then buy the whole bread even though it is much more expensive.

    Please note there are many providers here on LowEndSpirit who can come up with offers regarding dedicated servers tailed for your needs. All you have to do is simply ask.

    Thanks for that explanation that makes sense.

  • @rcy026 said:
    Also, kvm is a virtualization technology, its a vps. I'm not really sure what you are trying to say when you differentiate between vps and kvm but I'm pretty sure you got something wrong there.

    That's what I was worried about. My understanding is that a vps is like a hell account kinda. People sharing the resources with nothing divided up if that makes sense and kvm is virtualization where you actually, for lack of better wording, rent the cpu core itself.

  • @ralf said:
    Why is it that everyone who gets banned for mining just "happened" to randomly chose the xmrig project to download and build, even though none of them had any interest in actually mining.

    Just be honest, you got caught out fair and sqaure.

    I didn't get banned and I do mine as a hobby, just not on a cpu, it is horribly cost prohibitive and there i no way to ever recoup the cost of the services you rent. Let's say you rent services for $5 a month. You make about $.01 a day. For me on the mining side I have 10 antminer s9s and 4 antminer s19pros mining 24/7 that I pay nothing for electric or bandwidth. Even then the cost of the hardware itself will take over 18 months to break even not including the space I rent to have them stuck in. Just like the vps I have rented here, I did it first to support the community since the companies are giving such a good deal and there are those of you on here who actually use them for thing in your daily life to support your families and I want the providers to keep doing so. Yeah I had the xmrig git pulled up because I was downloading the algorithm code to compare it to sha256d to see how they work. I never said I had no interest in mining I just said I wasn't even considering mining on the server since I understand the economics of the situation and was attempting to give as clear information as to why I was asking so I could learn and being completely transparent.

  • @xleet said:
    Hi Bill - I am trusting that you are truly a beginner with VPSs and not a troll.

    A dedicated server is a physical computer. If you need the full resources of that computer, rent a dedicated server.

    A dedicated server can also be divided into many VPSs that share the resources of the dedicated server. Each VPS uses a "fair share" of the dedicated server. A VPS may need a burst of processing power for a short time, and the system will manage the load as the different VPSs have an occasional burst here and there. Problems can occur if a VPS uses too much of the dedicated server's processor resources for a steady, long period of time and not just a burst. The other VPSs on that same dedicated server will suffer, because they won't get their fair share of the processing power that they reasonably expect. The VPS provider detects those abuse conditions and deals with it, usually by shutting down the abusive VPS.

    Do you know what "process" and "thread" mean? A server runs many processes at the same time. Each process has one or more threads of execution. The system is constantly creating, running, suspending, resuming, and destroying processes and threads. Every event may trigger new processes and threads - such as typing a key on the keyboard, running a command, a request arrives at your VPS's website from a browser out on the internet, etc.

    The number of VPS cores you rent determines how many processes and threads can run at the same time. More cores means that more processes and threads can run concurrently. Fewer cores MAY affect VPS performance, depending on what you are running. Fewer cores means that more processes and threads may be suspended, waiting to start or resume.
    -> Renting a certain number of VPS cores does not give you the full use of those cores at "100% CPU" all the time. You must share those cores fairly with others.

    KVM is one type of virtualization software. Another popular virtualization software is OpenVZ. There are others, but I have not seen them in a while.

    KVM looks like a "bare metal" computer to the customer. You can install any compatible operating system on KVM - Linux, Windows, etc. Some providers may restrict you to Linux only, so know the terms. (OpenVZ is like having your own system, but with a shared kernel. That means that OpenVZ can only run Linux and you must use a template from the choices offered by the provider to install it.)

    I am not familiar with "xmrig", but when I searched for it, I found a lot of references to mining, so I am not surprised that your VPS provider cut you off. My feeling is that you VPS hammered the CPU at 100% for a long, steady period. In other words, you used an unfair share of the processor; it was not a short burst.

    VPS providers do not always say "no mining" but if you look at their Terms of Service or Acceptable Use Policy, you should find something that excludes using "an excessive amount of resources" or some other generalized terms like that. Translated, it means "no mining."

    If you want to use your VPS for mining, you MUST get the provider's permission first. They won't allow it on a VPS, but they may offer to sell you a dedicated server, where you can use 100% of all cores 24 x 7. Mining or not, read the terms of service and provider's other policies carefully before signing up. There are usually a variety of restrictions for what you can and cannot do with rented servers - whether dedicated or VPS or something else. Mining is a common restriction, obviously.

    Hint:
    If you can make a profit by mining with a VPS, ask yourself why the VPS provider doesn't convert all their VPSs into mining operations and eliminate all those pesky customers and service costs?

    Does that help?

    Tanks for the reply. I do understand cores and threads. Looks like my understanding of kvm and vps were wrong which is why I asked this question. My understanding was a vps was like a shell account and a kvm was renting the hardware core. Thank you for breaking it down for me. The issue I had with the provider was only explained for full clarity as to why I asked the question. The issue is I never mined on the server gcc was building the files and thats when they had issues. I didn't get banned and honestly if I would have it didn't matter, other than learning hands on with the different types of vps the fact I bought it to support those who support this community because of responses like your that help people learn it had already served it's purpose. If someone mines on a vps of whatever sort they are idiots because you will never reach ROI.

  • I'm going with I stepped into a hornets nest in the vps addicts community with this one. I assume you guys don't like miners. lol

  • @schism said:
    Tanks for the reply. I do understand cores and threads. Looks like my understanding of kvm and vps were wrong which is why I asked this question. My understanding was a vps was like a shell account and a kvm was renting the hardware core. Thank you for breaking it down for me. The issue I had with the provider was only explained for full clarity as to why I asked the question. The issue is I never mined on the server gcc was building the files and thats when they had issues. I didn't get banned and honestly if I would have it didn't matter, other than learning hands on with the different types of vps the fact I bought it to support those who support this community because of responses like your that help people learn it had already served it's purpose. If someone mines on a vps of whatever sort they are idiots because you will never reach ROI.

    @schism said:
    I'm going with I stepped into a hornets nest in the vps addicts community with this one. I assume you guys don't like miners. lol

    For the most part, you can get away with doing anything you want on your VPS as long as you do not draw attention to it from the provider. That means that your VPS does not use more than a reasonable amount of shared resources and it stays under its limits for bandwidth and drive storage.

    The other way to get unwanted attention is if your VPS is doing something that it should not - attacking other systems, hosting content that is in violation of the VPS provider's policies, stuff like that. The problem may be noticed by the provider themselves, but often that attention starts with a message from outside complaining about your VPS' actions, activities, or content. Different providers react differently to outside complaints about VPSs. Some have explicit policies about ignoring certain kinds of outside complaints, mostly related to website content.
    -> As a general rule, the best way to avoid this type of unwanted attention is to keep your VPS secure. Frequently the problem starts when the VPS gets hacked due to poor security by the customer.

    Nobody here cares if you are a miner, but you can give them other reasons not to like you. My advice is give them reasons to like you. ;-)

    Thanked by (1)schism
  • @xleet said:

    @schism said:
    Tanks for the reply. I do understand cores and threads. Looks like my understanding of kvm and vps were wrong which is why I asked this question. My understanding was a vps was like a shell account and a kvm was renting the hardware core. Thank you for breaking it down for me. The issue I had with the provider was only explained for full clarity as to why I asked the question. The issue is I never mined on the server gcc was building the files and thats when they had issues. I didn't get banned and honestly if I would have it didn't matter, other than learning hands on with the different types of vps the fact I bought it to support those who support this community because of responses like your that help people learn it had already served it's purpose. If someone mines on a vps of whatever sort they are idiots because you will never reach ROI.

    @schism said:
    I'm going with I stepped into a hornets nest in the vps addicts community with this one. I assume you guys don't like miners. lol

    For the most part, you can get away with doing anything you want on your VPS as long as you do not draw attention to it from the provider. That means that your VPS does not use more than a reasonable amount of shared resources and it stays under its limits for bandwidth and drive storage.

    The other way to get unwanted attention is if your VPS is doing something that it should not - attacking other systems, hosting content that is in violation of the VPS provider's policies, stuff like that. The problem may be noticed by the provider themselves, but often that attention starts with a message from outside complaining about your VPS' actions, activities, or content. Different providers react differently to outside complaints about VPSs. Some have explicit policies about ignoring certain kinds of outside complaints, mostly related to website content.
    -> As a general rule, the best way to avoid this type of unwanted attention is to keep your VPS secure. Frequently the problem starts when the VPS gets hacked due to poor security by the customer.

    Nobody here cares if you are a miner, but you can give them other reasons not to like you. My advice is give them reasons to like you. ;-)

    But if people like me then I have to deal with people......................

  • @schism said:

    But if people like me then I have to deal with people......................

    Are you sure? How do you know that the other LowEndSpirit members are people? "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."

    Thanked by (3)schism Ympker yoursunny
  • @xleet said:

    @schism said:

    But if people like me then I have to deal with people......................

    Are you sure? How do you know that the other LowEndSpirit members are people? "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."

    Ummm....... woof woof?

  • @xleet said: LowEndSpirit members are people

    beep boop

  • @dgc1980 said:

    @xleet said: LowEndSpirit members are people

    beep boop

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  • @xleet said:

    @schism said:

    But if people like me then I have to deal with people......................

    Are you sure? How do you know that the other LowEndSpirit members are people? "On the internet, nobody knows you're a dog."

    Yeti proud and Yeti lous buddy. I think I may need my own flag now. 🤔

    Thanked by (1)Ympker

    URL Shortener | YetiNode | Come join us on the MetalVPS IRC channel!!! | Are you in the Node?

  • edited April 2023

    @schism said:
    If someone mines on a vps of whatever sort they are idiots because you will never reach ROI.

    True, but you got the reason wrong. They are idiots because they are inconsiderate assholes that only think about themself, not because of ROI.

  • @rcy026 said:

    True, but you got the reason wrong. They are idiots because they are inconsiderate assholes that only think about themself, not because of ROI.

    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." (Hanlon's Razor)

    Thanked by (1)rcy026
  • @rcy026 said:

    @schism said:
    If someone mines on a vps of whatever sort they are idiots because you will never reach ROI.

    True, but you got the reason wrong. They are idiots because they are inconsiderate assholes that only think about themself, not because of ROI.

    How about they are idoits for not being smart enough to understand ROI and assholes for being greedy? lol

    Thanked by (1)xleet
  • @xleet said:

    @rcy026 said:

    True, but you got the reason wrong. They are idiots because they are inconsiderate assholes that only think about themself, not because of ROI.

    "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." (Hanlon's Razor)

    Amen. Kinda explains my ex-wife.....

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