How to chase a debtor in Canada (Nova Scotia) from Europe (Germany)

Amitz

Hi guys!

I wonder if anyone here could help me with some information on how to chase a debtor in Canada (Nova Scotia) from Europe (Germany). I have a customer there who owes me EUR 16,000.00 for a delivery of goods who decided to go quiet after receiving the delivery. I already reminded him 3 times concerning his payment delay, but no reaction at all.

I found out that I could maybe file a claim at Nova Scotia's Small Claims Court, this seems to be doable online, without a lawyer. Is there any other idea that comes to your mind, besides physical violence?

I know that this is quite off topic, but maybe somebody faced a similar situation before.

Thank you very much in advance & kind regards
Amis

ehab

sorry to hear that and hopefully gets resolved.

you said you reminded him? did you call?

i think best to check with providers located in Canada. Maybe they can recommend a debt collector.

webcraft

I don't know if this applies to Canada as well but my experience from the USA is that it highly depends of which community the debtor originates. There's some communities where fraud is common and they know how to hide from "light lawenforcement" which is what you can trigger from remote. If you want to really find that person in such a community, you have to do a lot of research you can only do locally or with local contacts. In the case I remember, in the end it felt like some people are not tracked down or charged for this kind of illegal behavior because it's so difficult to find them and get the court order proceed actually (if convicted in absentia). Now I don't do any business with people of communities with similar characteristics.

TheDP

Just take legal action.

Start off with the Small Claims Court as you have mentioned, call them up, brief them on your situation and plan, and see how it progresses from there.

skorupion

Hey [I'm not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice]

So first of all, I'd send them probably some mail reminding them to pay the invoice (with a confirmation of delivery via signature) so that you can build up your case. As you may know, Germany is usually pretty strict about contracts, so consider contacting and getting an online consultation with a lawyer who speaks both English and German and see where you are standing.

dvo

You may be able to file the notice of claim without a lawyer, however you’ll need one to represent you in court, unless you’re planning on making the trip and doing it yourself.

Even with a judgement, in terms of recovery, you won’t get blood out of a stone. It’s very rare to see small claims issue writs. Normally you'd just get a lien. If there is anything to lien that is.

@skorupion said: As you may know, Germany is usually pretty strict about contracts, so consider contacting and getting an online consultation with a lawyer who speaks both English and German and see where you are standing.

Germany has no jurisdiction.

Amitz

Thank you guys!
I am indeed preparing the small claims court procedure, but am also checking for debt agencies that buy claims (even if it is just at a fraction of the original sum). The customer is solvent, but simply an asshole, as it seems. I also consider flying to Nova Scotia. I have never been to Canada and my 2m in height and 130 kgs in weight might be enough reason to pay me when it comes to a face-to-face situation. I can make myself appear quite intimidating even though I am made of pure sugar, love and peace deep inside of me. We'll see...

legendary

If debt is legalized (court order or smth) just sell it to canadian collection agency. You will receive ~50% of debt but will not drag courts, destroy your health and time.

AuroraZero

^^

Also have to check German and Canadian to be sure that is legal as alot of countries have differences if you are not a resident.

That is the biggest issue really in this sitch. You are trying to collect a debt from someone outside your home country. Sure you can sue him in your country but the other one does not have to recognize the debt. You can try to sue him in his country but, that is alot of cash usually and you still may lose since most need you to show up.

No idea beyond that and you need to consult real legal council.

xleet

In the US, "small claims court" has limits, which may be a fraction of 16k Euros. Where I live, small claims court is at the county level (my state is divided into counties). The current limits in my county are $10,000 for individuals, $5,000 for businesses. Other areas may have lower limits.

I have no idea how small claims works in Canada. If small claims has similar limits to the US, you may want to choose an approach with better potential results.

dvo

In NS it's $25k CAD for small claims. Anything over that, it needs to be sent to the supreme provincial court and that where things start to get really expensive... fast!

IIRC debt collectors up here don't buy debt for single accounts. Normally they'd buy a portfolio of accounts. Most either charge you a fee to collect upfront or a higher fee if they're successful in collecting. Which is why you'd see a debt passed around from collection agency to collection agency.

All jokes aside, if the OP is planning a trip, keep in mind we don't have the freedoms of expression they have down in the US. Uttering threats & mischief are criminal offences. So it's not "i'm going to beat you up" it's "it'd be a shame if somebody beat you up".

AuroraZero

@dvo said:
In NS it's $25k CAD for small claims. Anything over that, it needs to be sent to the supreme provincial court and that where things start to get really expensive... fast!

IIRC debt collectors up here don't buy debt for single accounts. Normally they'd buy a portfolio of accounts. Most either charge you a fee to collect upfront or a higher fee if they're successful in collecting. Which is why you'd see a debt passed around from collection agency to collection agency.

All jokes aside, if the OP is planning a trip, keep in mind we don't have the freedoms of expression they have down in the US. Uttering threats & mischief are criminal offences. So it's not "i'm going to beat you up" it's "it'd be a shame if somebody beat you up".

That verbage is preferred here as well. Makes plausable deniability easier to use as a defense.

bikegremlin

Not a lawyer, so take this with a bucket of salt. Also, I'm sure @Amitz is smart and intelligent and this may come across as patronizing, but that's not what I'm going for. Just wish to avoid not having tried to help when I could. With that disclaimer in mind:

Regarding the face-to-face intimidation - if someone big and threatening showed up at my door, it is highly likely that they'd be in for a nasty surprise, and the police (and their reports) would most likely be "against them."

Of course, I do business so that I haven't got the slightest doubt that I've "damaged" the other party in any way, but that's irrelevant. My point is the advantage of the home turf.

Another thing to consider is that once you go "shady means," it's hard to go back. You'd better be skilled in that game if you're going to start playing it. In my experience, average German does things by the book (compared to an average Serb at least) and can't even begin to imagine the ideas and ingenuity that an average cunning idiot is capable of.

Regarding the legal stuff - my sense of justice and common sense often doesn't nearly align with how the law works in practice. So, even if you go "through the institutions," you could be in for some nasty surprises. The main advantage is that, with a good lawyer, any losses and mishaps will just be in terms of money, nothing more serious.

wdmg

@Amitz said:
Hi guys!

I wonder if anyone here could help me with some information on how to chase a debtor in Canada (Nova Scotia) from Europe (Germany). I have a customer there who owes me EUR 16,000.00 for a delivery of goods who decided to go quiet after receiving the delivery. I already reminded him 3 times concerning his payment delay, but no reaction at all.

I found out that I could maybe file a claim at Nova Scotia's Small Claims Court, this seems to be doable online, without a lawyer. Is there any other idea that comes to your mind, besides physical violence?

I know that this is quite off topic, but maybe somebody faced a similar situation before.

Thank you very much in advance & kind regards
Amis

Few things from experience here, if you're going to litigate someone in Canada:

1. If you elect to sue in Canada, just understand that any contract provisions you might've had with the client within your jurisdiction (e.g., Germany) may not be valid at all in Canada, or may be partially valid;

2. There are laws in most provinces in Canada that will favor the party who did not write the contract, it varies by jurisdiction so make sure to check into that;

3. Expect at least $30K in cost to prosecute. You will not receive 100% of your legal costs back in any case, at most a substantial indemnity, but most likely a partial indemnity (aka <50% of your legal costs back), so factor that into your evaluation if it's worth proceeding;

4. Always retain a respectable, trustable law firm that you feel comfortable with proceeding with. Make sure that your interests and their interests align, otherwise you will be left in a sticky situation;

5. Do not send any debt collection letters to them in advance of the litigation, the lawyers will typically send a Letter of Demand for payment notice via registered mail, e-mail and any other means, which is the recommended step first. Expect around $1000-$1500 for this process, sometimes it's enough to make them pay -- sometimes they pretend they didn't receive it until the curtain's coming back and the music stops.

Considering you're in Germany, you should look for a law firm with experience in international law specific to Canada and Germany, so they have a broader scope and understanding for you.

In any case, best of luck recovering your money /or/ goods, depending on what you want to reclaim back.

Amitz

Thank you guys! Just to be on the safe side: I run a serious business with a long history here. Using threats, violence or intimidation is, of course, not an option. I have a (good) reputation to lose and was just kidding about that.

I will go through the legal options and see where that leads to. I already accepted that I will probably never see the money (or just a fraction of it). It is just that this special customer probably ordered already without the intention to pay and I - at least - want him to go through some trouble for that.

Ympker

@Amitz said:
Thank you guys! Just to be on the safe side: I run a serious business with a long history here. Using threats, violence or intimidation is, of course, not an option. I have a (good) reputation to lose and was just kidding about that.

I will go through the legal options and see where that leads to. I already accepted that I will probably never see the money (or just a fraction of it). It is just that this special customer probably ordered already without the intention to pay and I - at least - want him to go through some trouble for that.

Do you by chance have any legal insurance for your business that would cover international law? Some do, iirc.
If not, maybe this is the time to get one?

What about something Auslandsinkasso?
https://germania-inkasso.de/dienstleistungen/auslandsinkasso/