The big $7 question - have your say.

AnthonySmith · 3:29PM

Hello,

Yep, it's that time again when we talk about $7, this is just me, not as a mod; I don't make any decisions on this.

I had written a molithic post about this, or at least that's where it was going. I decided to delete it. Everything that can be said has been said; right now, I think this is better categorised as an emotion than a set of facts. There are opinions on this everywhere, and any mass writing is probably going to be biased toward my opinion, and that's not the point of this.

So I have just decided to add some bullet points to get us started that people will actually read, and I will edit this post and add to them as people bring up good points or the same point gets made multiple times in various forms.

Then, based on the results after a week or so, I will make a poll for votes that hosts will not take part in if there seems to be a genuine appetite for change, and ONLY if the poll indicates that more than half the community wants change, I am going to ask @Mason and @mikho to consider it. Nothing is guaranteed, at the end of the day its their call, but i do think its time we ask the question again, and regardless of the outcome, probably not for the last time.

Just FYI:
The previous poll in 2022 actually had 38% of people in favour of an increase of some type, which was the largest overall percentage and of all that voted, those that wanted any change in some way +/- to the $7 was actually 52% of the total vote on that basis if it goes to the poll, we should at least consider decreasing it too, 20% did not care either way and 26% wanted it to stay at $7

Reasons for change:

$7 limit was set 15 years ago, nothing costs what it did 15 years ago
World events (let's not get into them) happened and had a big financial impact on the tech industry's ability to buy and prices that we are yet to actually feel the magnitude of fully
None of us owns the $7 idea, the guy who did, picked a random number that sounded ok at the time.
The number does not define the spirit of LE*
It really limits the hosts and stifels them, and times are harder than ever, no hosts, and where are we?
The economies of scale are real; smaller hosts don't have the same ability to get started as they used to when so limited, so it now favours bigger hosts significantly.
The spirit of LE* is not what it used to be anyway. When was the last time you saw a good example or write-up of someone doing more with less instead of just getting a 2GB box and doing it the easy way if the resource use is even considered at all?
We might start to also see some GPU-based offers as well whcih will start to be more of an interest in the community as things evolve.

Reasons for no change:

$7 is still very achievable these days, you just get more than you used to with the economies of scale.
I have often felt like it almost acts as an overall industry runaway stop, as there is a competitive alternative.
We have always done $7, no logic or reason for this one, it's just how it always has been and thats a perfectly valid feeling, not everything needs a justification.
There is a chance that it does at least erode the spirit of LE* further

Proposals that have merit:

Remove the limit altogether for 3 months, see how it goes, make an emotional and feeling-based decision after that, don't try to define it, don't constrain it, just see what happens, if its bad its bad, if its good, it's good, if it changes nothing, then nothing needs to change, at least we know.
A proposal I don't think we have seen before, which in my opinion, solves all issues and no one should be unhappy with All offer posts must contain a $7 or less option that is considered generally available and in stock, as long as it contains that, you can ALSO list anything else you have to offer. (The same goes for dedis on their current maximum price point for the rules and general hosting), This not only keeps the $7, but it also prevents the hosts from being strangled, forces market price checks, gives people what they want that still have the spirit, keeps the competition alive, and allows more hosts to feel its worth being here.
Push the exclusive offers option more than we do already, as that already has no limits, maybe hosts dont know.

Please try to keep this semi on track and meme-free if you can help it.

/me ducks for cover.

havoc · 3:49PM

It's definitely due for an inflation update. I reckon $10 is the new $7

But also not opposed to either of the suggestions at bottom

imok · 3:51PM

I say do it. Looks like a nice experiment and maybe we can see the value some providers have.

EDIT: no meme.

bikegremlin · 4:04PM

@AnthonySmith said:

/me ducks for cover.

Here, this might come in handy:

cmeerw · 4:40PM

@AnthonySmith said: A proposal I don't think we have seen before, which in my opinion, solves all issues and no one should be unhappy with All offer posts must contain a $7 or less option that is considered generally available and in stock, as long as it contains that, you can ALSO list anything else you have to offer.

I'd say that will only encourage providers to add a completely useless offer to their regular offers (instead of coming up with low-end offers). Say I want to sell a 4 GB RAM VPS for $20 / month and want to advertise it here - the only thing I'll have to do is add an offer for $7 / month, but that will be 128 MB RAM with 2 GB of disk space and IPv6 only (certainly not something anyone sane would buy)

AnthonySmith · 4:43PM

@cmeerw said: the only thing I'll have to do is add an offer for $7 / month, but that will be 128 MB RAM with 2 GB of disk space and IPv6 only (certainly not something anyone sane would buy)

Valid point, I tend to think the backlash from the community would be self-governing at that point, and just because they work outside the spirit of the rules does not mean their other offers are bad, but still valid.

teamacc · 4:47PM

We've seen at hostballs what fully removing the limit achieves - providers are no longer pushing for low pricing and just dump whatever is on their public facing sites anyway.

The limit is there to embody the low-end spirit, removing it would remove the spirit. Increasing it to 10 usd might keep the spirit but would allow some more wiggle room.

Alternatively, providers can already post LES-exclusive offers without any limits, so there's already options for more expensive plans.

imok · 4:53PM

@teamacc said: Alternatively, providers can already post LES-exclusive offers without any limits, so there's already options for more expensive plans.

I had forgotten this. Maybe it's not clear/advertised enough?

AnthonySmith · 5:09PM

@teamacc said: We've seen at hostballs what fully removing the limit achieves - providers are no longer pushing for low pricing and just dump whatever is on their public facing sites anyway.

Interesting, I forgot about that. Did hostballs ever have limits? or was it added after launch/mid life?

@teamacc said: Alternatively, providers can already post LES-exclusive offers without any limits, so there's already options for more expensive plans.

Fair point.

The big $7 question - have your say.

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