The big $7 question - have your say.

AnthonySmith · February 19

Hello,

Yep, it's that time again when we talk about $7, this is just me, not as a mod; I don't make any decisions on this.

I had written a molithic post about this, or at least that's where it was going. I decided to delete it. Everything that can be said has been said; right now, I think this is better categorised as an emotion than a set of facts. There are opinions on this everywhere, and any mass writing is probably going to be biased toward my opinion, and that's not the point of this.

So I have just decided to add some bullet points to get us started that people will actually read, and I will edit this post and add to them as people bring up good points or the same point gets made multiple times in various forms.

Then, based on the results after a week or so, I will make a poll for votes that hosts will not take part in if there seems to be a genuine appetite for change, and ONLY if the poll indicates that more than half the community wants change, I am going to ask @Mason and @mikho to consider it. Nothing is guaranteed, at the end of the day its their call, but i do think its time we ask the question again, and regardless of the outcome, probably not for the last time.

Just FYI:
The previous poll in 2022 actually had 38% of people in favour of an increase of some type, which was the largest overall percentage and of all that voted, those that wanted any change in some way +/- to the $7 was actually 52% of the total vote on that basis if it goes to the poll, we should at least consider decreasing it too, 20% did not care either way and 26% wanted it to stay at $7

Reasons for change:

$7 limit was set 15 years ago, nothing costs what it did 15 years ago
World events (let's not get into them) happened and had a big financial impact on the tech industry's ability to buy and prices that we are yet to actually feel the magnitude of fully
None of us owns the $7 idea, the guy who did, picked a random number that sounded ok at the time.
The number does not define the spirit of LE*
It really limits the hosts and stifels them, and times are harder than ever, no hosts, and where are we?
The economies of scale are real; smaller hosts don't have the same ability to get started as they used to when so limited, so it now favours bigger hosts significantly.
The spirit of LE* is not what it used to be anyway. When was the last time you saw a good example or write-up of someone doing more with less instead of just getting a 2GB box and doing it the easy way if the resource use is even considered at all?
We might start to also see some GPU-based offers as well whcih will start to be more of an interest in the community as things evolve.

Reasons for no change:

$7 is still very achievable these days, you just get more than you used to with the economies of scale.
I have often felt like it almost acts as an overall industry runaway stop, as there is a competitive alternative.
We have always done $7, no logic or reason for this one, it's just how it always has been and thats a perfectly valid feeling, not everything needs a justification.
There is a chance that it does at least erode the spirit of LE* further

Proposals that have merit:

Remove the limit altogether for 3 months, see how it goes, make an emotional and feeling-based decision after that, don't try to define it, don't constrain it, just see what happens, if its bad its bad, if its good, it's good, if it changes nothing, then nothing needs to change, at least we know.
A proposal I don't think we have seen before, which in my opinion, solves all issues and no one should be unhappy with All offer posts must contain a $7 or less option that is considered generally available and in stock, as long as it contains that, you can ALSO list anything else you have to offer. (The same goes for dedis on their current maximum price point for the rules and general hosting), This not only keeps the $7, but it also prevents the hosts from being strangled, forces market price checks, gives people what they want that still have the spirit, keeps the competition alive, and allows more hosts to feel its worth being here.
Push the exclusive offers option more than we do already, as that already has no limits, maybe hosts dont know.

Please try to keep this semi on track and meme-free if you can help it.

/me ducks for cover.

havoc · February 19

It's definitely due for an inflation update. I reckon $10 is the new $7

But also not opposed to either of the suggestions at bottom

imok · February 19

I say do it. Looks like a nice experiment and maybe we can see the value some providers have.

EDIT: no meme.

bikegremlin · February 19

@AnthonySmith said:

/me ducks for cover.

Here, this might come in handy:

cmeerw · February 19

@AnthonySmith said: A proposal I don't think we have seen before, which in my opinion, solves all issues and no one should be unhappy with All offer posts must contain a $7 or less option that is considered generally available and in stock, as long as it contains that, you can ALSO list anything else you have to offer.

I'd say that will only encourage providers to add a completely useless offer to their regular offers (instead of coming up with low-end offers). Say I want to sell a 4 GB RAM VPS for $20 / month and want to advertise it here - the only thing I'll have to do is add an offer for $7 / month, but that will be 128 MB RAM with 2 GB of disk space and IPv6 only (certainly not something anyone sane would buy)

AnthonySmith · February 19

@cmeerw said: the only thing I'll have to do is add an offer for $7 / month, but that will be 128 MB RAM with 2 GB of disk space and IPv6 only (certainly not something anyone sane would buy)

Valid point, I tend to think the backlash from the community would be self-governing at that point, and just because they work outside the spirit of the rules does not mean their other offers are bad, but still valid.

teamacc · February 19

We've seen at hostballs what fully removing the limit achieves - providers are no longer pushing for low pricing and just dump whatever is on their public facing sites anyway.

The limit is there to embody the low-end spirit, removing it would remove the spirit. Increasing it to 10 usd might keep the spirit but would allow some more wiggle room.

Alternatively, providers can already post LES-exclusive offers without any limits, so there's already options for more expensive plans.

imok · February 19

@teamacc said: Alternatively, providers can already post LES-exclusive offers without any limits, so there's already options for more expensive plans.

I had forgotten this. Maybe it's not clear/advertised enough?

AnthonySmith · February 19

@teamacc said: We've seen at hostballs what fully removing the limit achieves - providers are no longer pushing for low pricing and just dump whatever is on their public facing sites anyway.

Interesting, I forgot about that. Did hostballs ever have limits? or was it added after launch/mid life?

@teamacc said: Alternatively, providers can already post LES-exclusive offers without any limits, so there's already options for more expensive plans.

Fair point.

teamacc · February 19

@AnthonySmith said:

@teamacc said: We've seen at hostballs what fully removing the limit achieves - providers are no longer pushing for low pricing and just dump whatever is on their public facing sites anyway.

Interesting, I forgot about that. Did hostballs ever have limits? or was it added after launch/mid life?

@teamacc said: Alternatively, providers can already post LES-exclusive offers without any limits, so there's already options for more expensive plans.

Fair point.

AFAIK hostballs never had any limits, but they removed the offer section entirely a few years (?) back.

AnthonySmith · February 19

@teamacc said: AFAIK hostballs never had any limits, but they removed the offer section entirely a few years (?) back.

Ok, slightly different set of circumstances then, but still interesting point that you made, people just copy pasted what was already on their website, which to some degree is ok, i mean its another outlet to make people aware, we are not all browsing hosts sites all day, but the copy pasta irritation is a real thing.

That said I think part of the issue with that is that it clutters, i think the right hand bar is next to useless anyway and thats where offers should live, still interact with them like the main forum, but offers to the right of me jokers to the left, here I am.

Anyway.... icecream.

yoursunny · February 19

$6/year is the new $7/month.
There is always the "LES Exclusive Dealz" that has no price ceiling.

AnthonySmith · February 19

@yoursunny said:
$6/year is the new $7/month.
There is always the "LES Exclusive Dealz" that has no price ceiling.

next tierhive offer will be $7 for 6 years then

tulipyun · 12:11AM

This seems beyond debate—the market will make its own choice.

Consumers wouldn't expect to get a system with a 9950X CPU, 8GB RAM, and a 200GB NVMe drive for $7 a year.

But systems using decade-old CPUs, DDR3/DDR4 RAM bought at rock-bottom prices years ago, hybrid HDD+SSD storage, running on outdated software with perpetual licenses, and overselling CPU/memory resources—those could easily hit $7, couldn't they?

In fact, I've actually purchased some VPS instances this year with subpar performance, yet they met specific needs at prices well below $7 per year (since I didn't buy them here, I won't name them).

Therefore, in my view, this discussion seems less about free market transactions and more about justifying price hikes—moving further away from the "lowend spirit."

AnthonySmith · 12:41AM

@tulipyun said:
This seems beyond debate—the market will make its own choice.

Consumers wouldn't expect to get a system with a 9950X CPU, 8GB RAM, and a 200GB NVMe drive for $7 a year.

But systems using decade-old CPUs, DDR3/DDR4 RAM bought at rock-bottom prices years ago, hybrid HDD+SSD storage, running on outdated software with perpetual licenses, and overselling CPU/memory resources—those could easily hit $7, couldn't they?

In fact, I've actually purchased some VPS instances this year with subpar performance, yet they met specific needs at prices well below $7 per year (since I didn't buy them here, I won't name them).

Therefore, in my view, this discussion seems less about free market transactions and more about justifying price hikes—moving further away from the "lowend spirit."

Or reductions!!

MichaelCee · 1:54AM

$6.66 or nothing

somik · 2:51AM

$7 in 2011 (about 15 years ago) adjusts to roughly $10 today just based on inflation alone.

That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

For comparison:
I bought a mid-range laptop for ~$800 in 2011. To get a laptop in 2026 with comparable performance, build quality, and features, you’re realistically looking at $1,800–$2,000. Hardware performance expectations, component quality, and feature sets have all moved significantly upward.

The same trend applies to VPS hosting:

Software stacks are far more bloated thæn they were in 2011
Users expect more RAM, faster storage, better networking, and higher uptime
Providers now include things that used to be “extras” (NVMe, snapshots, APIs, better DDoS mitigation, etc.)

A quick look at current market pricing shows that mid-range VPS plans now cluster around ~$20/month. Since LES is "Low End", it should reasonably include both the cheapest tier and mid-range offerings, not just rock-bottom loss-leader plans.

Current Mid-Range VPS Pricing (Typical)

Provider	Typical Mid-Range Price	Example Config	Source
AWS Lightsail	~$10–$20/mo	1–2 vCPUs, 2–4 GB RAM, ~60–80 GB SSD	VPSYOU
DigitalOcean	~$18–$24/mo	2 vCPUs, 2–4 GB RAM, ~50–80 GB SSD	VPSYOU
Linode	~$12–$20/mo	1–2 vCPUs, 2–4 GB RAM, ~50–80 GB SSD	VPSYOU
Vultr	~$12–$20/mo	1–2 vCPUs, 2–4 GB RAM, ~55–80 GB SSD	VPSYOU
Hetzner Cloud	~$8–$20/mo*	2 vCPUs, 2–4 GB RAM, ~40–100 GB NVMe	VPSYOU (EU-centric)
UpCloud	~$20/mo	2 vCPUs, 4 GB RAM	Cyfuture Cloud
Other Business VPS	~$15–$50/mo	Managed plans / enhanced resources	Servers Expert

Bottom line:
A $7 VPS from 2011 translating to ~$10 today isn’t unreasonable on paper, but when you factor in performance expectations, software demands, and infrastructure improvements, today’s $15–$20 "low-end" VPS is arguably delivering more value, not less.

That being said, $7 per year plans still are tempting AF!

(re-formatted with LLM)

MichaelCee · 4:21AM

@somik said: That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

I beg to differ...

bikegremlin · 6:06AM

Most prices have doubled over the past few years alone.
At least in my country and also for the stuff I look to buy from abroad.
Goods (including but not limited to housing) and services - both.

$7 may be $10 on paper or in the news.
But not in stores.

somik · 7:00AM

@MichaelCee said:

@somik said: That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

I beg to differ...

Are you using a laptop with 2 GB DDR2 or DDR3 RAM with Intel Pentium dual-core E5xxx or Intel celeron CPU with a 120 to 250GB HDD and 1024x600 or 1366x768 res screen? That's the typical "low end" laptop from 15 years ago.

I do have a mini PC with intel J1900 and 2GB of DDR3 RAM and it is too slow to even browse...

@bikegremlin said:
Most prices have doubled over the past few years alone.
At least in my country and also for the stuff I look to buy from abroad.
Goods (including but not limited to housing) and services - both.

$7 may be $10 on paper or in the news.
But not in stores.

Agreed. Not counting the DDR5 RAM prices, things are still at least twice as expensive as compared to 15 years ago...

Anyway, a higher price cap will also attract more providers and thus, more users

bikegremlin · 7:49AM

@somik said:

@MichaelCee said:

@somik said: That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

I beg to differ...

Are you using a laptop with 2 GB DDR2 or DDR3 RAM with Intel Pentium dual-core E5xxx or Intel celeron CPU with a 120 to 250GB HDD and 1024x600 or 1366x768 res screen? That's the typical "low end" laptop from 15 years ago.

Hey - my workshop laptop until recently was like that.
Let me google the specs:

Processor: Intel Core i5-3320M (2.60 GHz)
Memory (RAM): 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM (1600 MHz)
Storage: 128 GB SSD
Display: 14-inch diagonal LED-backlit HD (1366 x 768)
Graphics: Integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000
Operating System: Generally Windows 10 Pro (often refurbished from original Windows 7)
Weight: Approximately 2.1 kg (4.6 lbs)

Features & Connectivity
Optical Drive: DVD+/-RW SuperMulti (I swapped this to put a rack with its old SSD, and put the new 512 GB Samsung SSD in its place while that was cheap).
Ports: 2x USB 3.0, 1x USB 2.0, 1x USB 2.0/eSATA combo, 1x DisplayPort, 1x VGA, 1x Firewire, ExpressCard/54 slot, SD Card reader
Networking: Gigabit Ethernet, Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n, Bluetooth 4.0

I do have a mini PC with intel J1900 and 2GB of DDR3 RAM and it is too slow to even browse...

My old (described above) laptop worked like a charm - with Linux Mint.
However, my ISP gave me some free eSIM and a ton of Internet traffic each month, and so I now use my new laptop with eSIM, since it's a lot more convenient to have the Net available wherever I go with the laptop.

The old laptop is still functioning fine, but it is no longer my daily driver.

@bikegremlin said:
Most prices have doubled over the past few years alone.
At least in my country and also for the stuff I look to buy from abroad.
Goods (including but not limited to housing) and services - both.

$7 may be $10 on paper or in the news.
But not in stores.

Agreed. Not counting the DDR5 RAM prices, things are still at least twice as expensive as compared to 15 years ago...

Anyway, a higher price cap will also attract more providers and thus, more users

Quality beat quantity in my book (the sarcastic me would add that every mediocrity believes that quantity can bring quality).

There is also a difference between cheap as in affordable - and cheap as in rubbish.

Could LES attract (heavily-discounted) offers from high-quality providers? I think increasing the price limit could make that be less improbable.

On the bright side, it may not matter whether we change or keep the price limits. AI will take over. Zero click internet is arriving.
Cats will rule the world.

jcn50 · 8:58AM

This is the sole reason why $7/y is more possible than ever~ CPUs consuming less power than before offsets inflation~ and this is valid regardless of temporary ups & downs:

Thus said, I personally consider offers up to $12/y (so $1/m).

AnthonySmith · 10:01AM

UK - 2010 1kwh cost on average was 12.7p 15 years later that's 27.7p

I wonder if servers got around 125% more power efficient and remained the same relative price.

I know 15 years ago I was running a modern at the time 8 thread cpus 4x 1TB hot swappable spinning rust in raid 10 and 32GB ram and the servers were about 90 euro per month.

I wonder if I can find a server with a modern 16 threads and 4TB of useable nvme raid 10 with 64GB ddr5 ram now for under 200 EUR per month.

That would be the modern replacement without giving anything up.

If so I guess the $7 stands as everything scales around it.

AnthonySmith · 10:06AM

Just went to the same host as 15 years ago, configured the 16 core 64gb 4tb raid 10 and it's €573 p/month so only a 600% increase in 15 years.... Bargain.

somik · 10:07AM

@bikegremlin said:
Hey - my workshop laptop until recently was like that.
Let me google the specs:

Processor: Intel Core i5-3320M (2.60 GHz)
Memory (RAM): 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM (1600 MHz)
Storage: 128 GB SSD
Display: 14-inch diagonal LED-backlit HD (1366 x 768)
Graphics: Integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000
Operating System: Generally Windows 10 Pro (often refurbished from original Windows 7)
Weight: Approximately 2.1 kg (4.6 lbs)

Features & Connectivity
Optical Drive: DVD+/-RW SuperMulti (I swapped this to put a rack with its old SSD, and put the new 512 GB Samsung SSD in its place while that was cheap).
Ports: 2x USB 3.0, 1x USB 2.0, 1x USB 2.0/eSATA combo, 1x DisplayPort, 1x VGA, 1x Firewire, ExpressCard/54 slot, SD Card reader
Networking: Gigabit Ethernet, Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n, Bluetooth 4.0

Those sounds like a mid range laptop, not a low end. Specially SSD... Are you sure it wasn't a EMMC which was the standard of that age?

@bikegremlin said:

I do have a mini PC with intel J1900 and 2GB of DDR3 RAM and it is too slow to even browse...

My old (described above) laptop worked like a charm - with Linux Mint.
However, my ISP gave me some free eSIM and a ton of Internet traffic each month, and so I now use my new laptop with eSIM, since it's a lot more convenient to have the Net available wherever I go with the laptop.

The old laptop is still functioning fine, but it is no longer my daily driver.

I ran it as a DEV server for a while but when even rendering PHP scripts takes a while, i gave up on it and consolidated it all into my home server.

@bikegremlin said:
Most prices have doubled over the past few years alone.
At least in my country and also for the stuff I look to buy from abroad.
Goods (including but not limited to housing) and services - both.

$7 may be $10 on paper or in the news.
But not in stores.

Agreed. Not counting the DDR5 RAM prices, things are still at least twice as expensive as compared to 15 years ago...

Anyway, a higher price cap will also attract more providers and thus, more users

Quality beat quantity in my book (the sarcastic me would add that every mediocrity believes that quantity can bring quality).

There is also a difference between cheap as in affordable - and cheap as in rubbish.

Could LES attract (heavily-discounted) offers from high-quality providers? I think increasing the price limit could make that be less improbable.

Quality comes at a price, and that price isn't $7 anymore...

@bikegremlin said:

On the bright side, it may not matter whether we change or keep the price limits. AI will take over. Zero click internet is arriving.
Cats will rule the world.

While using chatgpt to search for more prices of McDonalds meals from 2011, it quoted "grok" from twitter. AI quoting AI slop. Internet is f*cked...

Soon I'll also be replaced with AI on the internet, and no one will ever realize... cause they are also all AI

AnthonySmith · 10:56AM

@MichaelCee said:

@somik said: That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

I beg to differ...

Doing more with less.

If a terminal and a browser runs that's fine for me.

My main pc is an E3-1271v3 32gb 6x500gb SSD in raid 10 + 4x1TB HDD raid 10 + 1x esta 4TB and a silent RTX3050 6GB

Everything fanless I prefer silent running over performance

bingobangobongo · 11:24AM

@AnthonySmith said:
I wonder if I can find a server with a modern 16 threads and 4TB of useable nvme raid 10 with 64GB ddr5 ram now for under 200 EUR per month.

I get close on specs and much better on price - just sayin’

Joking aside, I’m most interested in what people expect from “deals”, like how do you value said deal? Is it on included features vs cost, pure specs or on overall saving - or a mixture of all those things.

Also do you want the ability to define your vps specs and have an associated social offer on it, or are you ok with providers building plans?

The above is what I’ve been trying to get a closer touch on, so that I can build things that work for both sides.

somik · 11:30AM

@AnthonySmith said:

@MichaelCee said:

@somik said: That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

I beg to differ...

Doing more with less.

If a terminal and a browser runs that's fine for me.

My main pc is an E3-1271v3 32gb 6x500gb SSD in raid 10 + 4x1TB HDD raid 10 + 1x esta 4TB and a silent RTX3050 6GB

Everything fanless I prefer silent running over performance

Sir... that's a server... Atleast call it a workstation! Also, in which world is 32GB of ram, 3TB of SSD & 8TB of HDD and RTX3050 considered "low end"?

Also, isn't that CPU being a bottleneck in your setup? RTX3050 needs a slightly higher end CPU.

Finally, I guess you live in a cold country. Only those in cold countries are all about "fanless" and "silent". Those of us in hot countries (like Singapore) dont mind "fan noises" from our computer. We cant hear that over the 18inch wall fan pointed at us. If you are a little more rich, you run a split aircon, which is also noisy, along with a smaller desk fan.

bikegremlin · 12:08PM

@AnthonySmith said:

@MichaelCee said:

@somik said: That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

I beg to differ...

Doing more with less.

If a terminal and a browser runs that's fine for me.

My main pc is an E3-1271v3 32gb 6x500gb SSD in raid 10 + 4x1TB HDD raid 10 + 1x esta 4TB and a silent RTX3050 6GB

Everything fanless I prefer silent running over performance

yoursunny · 12:22PM

@MichaelCee said:
$6.66 or nothing

£2/month or nothing

@somik said:
I bought a mid-range laptop for ~$800 in 2011. To get a laptop in 2026 with comparable performance, build quality, and features, you’re realistically looking at $1,800–$2,000. Hardware performance expectations, component quality, and feature sets have all moved significantly upward.

Buy refurbished laptop, problem solved.

https://twitter.com/yoursunny/status/1934777292753870964

Chievo · 12:22PM

@bikegremlin said:

@somik said:

@MichaelCee said:

@somik said: That said, I don’t think any of us are still using a "low-end" desktop or laptop from 15 years ago.

I beg to differ...

Are you using a laptop with 2 GB DDR2 or DDR3 RAM with Intel Pentium dual-core E5xxx or Intel celeron CPU with a 120 to 250GB HDD and 1024x600 or 1366x768 res screen? That's the typical "low end" laptop from 15 years ago.

Hey - my workshop laptop until recently was like that.
Let me google the specs:

Processor: Intel Core i5-3320M (2.60 GHz)
Memory (RAM): 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM (1600 MHz)
Storage: 128 GB SSD
Display: 14-inch diagonal LED-backlit HD (1366 x 768)
Graphics: Integrated Intel HD Graphics 4000
Operating System: Generally Windows 10 Pro (often refurbished from original Windows 7)
Weight: Approximately 2.1 kg (4.6 lbs)

Features & Connectivity
Optical Drive: DVD+/-RW SuperMulti (I swapped this to put a rack with its old SSD, and put the new 512 GB Samsung SSD in its place while that was cheap).
Ports: 2x USB 3.0, 1x USB 2.0, 1x USB 2.0/eSATA combo, 1x DisplayPort, 1x VGA, 1x Firewire, ExpressCard/54 slot, SD Card reader
Networking: Gigabit Ethernet, Wi-Fi 802.11a/b/g/n, Bluetooth 4.0

I do have a mini PC with intel J1900 and 2GB of DDR3 RAM and it is too slow to even browse...

My old (described above) laptop worked like a charm - with Linux Mint.
However, my ISP gave me some free eSIM and a ton of Internet traffic each month, and so I now use my new laptop with eSIM, since it's a lot more convenient to have the Net available wherever I go with the laptop.

The old laptop is still functioning fine, but it is no longer my daily driver.

@bikegremlin said:
Most prices have doubled over the past few years alone.
At least in my country and also for the stuff I look to buy from abroad.
Goods (including but not limited to housing) and services - both.

$7 may be $10 on paper or in the news.
But not in stores.

Agreed. Not counting the DDR5 RAM prices, things are still at least twice as expensive as compared to 15 years ago...

Anyway, a higher price cap will also attract more providers and thus, more users

Quality beat quantity in my book (the sarcastic me would add that every mediocrity believes that quantity can bring quality).

There is also a difference between cheap as in affordable - and cheap as in rubbish.

Could LES attract (heavily-discounted) offers from high-quality providers? I think increasing the price limit could make that be less improbable.

On the bright side, it may not matter whether we change or keep the price limits. AI will take over. Zero click internet is arriving.
Cats will rule the world.

Full carry for 30 euros .....today a plastic bag just one of course 30 euros ......

The big $7 question - have your say.

Comments

Current Mid-Range VPS Pricing (Typical)