Das abo KYC

ascicode · September 8

They blocked all accounts and forcing to complete KYC. Some getting 3x price hike.

In compliance with applicable European regulations regarding security, transparency, and the prevention of illicit activities, our organization is required to perform a customer identity verification process (KYC - Know Your Customer).
We kindly ask you to complete the verification process via the following secure link: verify stripe com / xxxx
The procedure is guided, fully secure, and will only take a few minutes. 
Please note that completing this process is a mandatory legal requirement. Failure to complete or fully finalize the verification within 10 days of this notification will result in the closure of your account and the termination of all provided services, pursuant to applicable law and contract terms.
If you have already submitted your documents or require any technical assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our support team.

Sincerely,

The Compliance Team

First saw on OGF, so post it here as information. Letter found on NS.

AnthonySmith · September 8

And this is why we use a merchant of record and pay the extra fees, so that YOU are not OUR customer, so we don't need to KYC you, and even if someone asked for your data, we dont have it.

Stripe just started allowing MOR selectively, i expect it to be the way forward for independent businesses, what it costs in fees it saves in other ways and I would say overall we are better off for it.

yoursunny · September 8

We encourage potential Dasabo customers to read this thread before looking at the 2x2 square in the sidebar.

Dasabo · September 8

Hello,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Please consider the following points:

Targeted Verification: Enhanced KYC (Know Your Customer) verification is not being requested for all accounts. It applies only to specific accounts flagged by system alerts or other compliance triggers.

Legal and Regulatory Compliance: Dasabo is legally headquartered in Italy and holds a Ministry-issued telecommunications license to serve retail, corporate, and public sector clients. To maintain these certifications, Italian and European laws require us to keep accurate, up-to-date customer identity data. This requirement is also clearly outlined in our Terms of Service, which customers accept when placing an order.

Verification Status: The vast majority of negative feedback regarding this policy stems from users who registered with false data. Conversely, hundreds of legitimate customers completed the KYC check seamlessly within the first 24 hours without issue.

Proportionate Standards: Enhanced identity verification is standard practice across industries such as banking, telecommunications, utilities, or auto sales. As a regulated company, Dasabo is subject to the same legal obligations to ensure security and compliance.

Data Security & Privacy: To ensure the highest privacy and security standards, we partner with Stripe Identity, a certified third-party vendor. Once verified, user data is encrypted and obfuscated to prevent unauthorized access or disclosure.

Company Investment: KYC verification is not free; it represents a direct operational cost for Dasabo. We absorb this expense solely to fulfill our statutory obligations under applicable law.

We appreciate your understanding as we work to maintain a secure and fully compliant platform for all our users.

yoshiki · September 8

@Dasabo said:
Hello,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Please consider the following points:
Data Security & Privacy: To ensure the highest privacy and security standards, we partner with Stripe Identity, a certified third-party vendor. Once verified, user data is encrypted and obfuscated to prevent unauthorized access or disclosure.

You guys might not know it, but this reply was made with GPT 5.6 paid for by one of Dasabo's customers who got their card info stolen by a support team member! Congrats lucky user! 🎉

davide · September 9

@Dasabo said:
[...AI AI AI AI] The vast majority of negative feedback regarding this policy stems from users who registered with false data [AI AI AI AI...]

Does anyone truly care if a customer registers with personal name QQQ123? Fake names trigger about half of the Stripe frauds detected during payment, I think, but not the other half, and no one seems to care about the good half that pass. After all some people register from really strange places with unpronounceable names and no one can say for sure. Gut feeling is that you wouldn't be fined for having some QQQ123 among your customers. Incognet takes crypto directly with no questions asked. No idea.

poei · September 9

Honestly this statement from Dasabo is full of holes.

They claim only "flagged" accounts got KYC but tons of ppl in the LET thread say ALL accounts were blocked, even one guy who never used a card — so that's just not true.
Also they push everyone to Stripe Identity demanding full unedited ID pics, which for some of us is actually illegal to send under our own national laws.they completly ignored that point.
Another thing — there IS a UK company called DASABO HOSTING LTD registered at Companies House, so "legally headquartered in Italy" is only half the story and so they hide which entity you actually have a contract with.

The big one tho:

Hosting/VPS is not a sector EU AML law forces KYC on, banks and sim cards yes, but renting a server no, and quoting "European laws" without naming a single one is a huge flag in itself. Saying "most complainers just used fake data" with zero proof is just throwing mud at customers to dodge the question. And locking people out of there own paid accounts so they cant even open a ticket while sending from a no-reply email isn't "compliance", it's hostage tactics.

So ya, this is spin dressed up as regulation.

AnthonySmith · September 9

I am not getting into the ins and outs of this specific case, but I think it needs to be said that it is a bit unfair to attack any host for doing KYC, I promise you they are not doing it for fun. There is an ever-evolving shitstorm of nanny-state " protect the children " regulations being completely enforced and pushed on to small businesses within Europe at a rate no one can keep up.

It got to the point at one stage a few years ago that if your grandmother wanted to sell a pdf of a knitting pattern for a cool knitware jumper for your grandchildren for $1 and maybe thought she would sell 10 ever, she needed to register with 27 EU member states for VAT seperatley o should could correctly dispurse and collect the due tax at the appropriate rate after ensuring collection of multiple data points to be sure of the customers origin.

Now in the UK they are expecting sole traders making £500 p/year on an ebay side line doing some watch repairs to do a full tax return every 3 months.

KYC is probably the most horrific of all of them and with the biggest punishments for non-compliance, the system is messed up and it is VERY against small businesses who cannot afford a small legal team to cut through all the shit so we make our best guess half the time and we dont always get it right.

Dasabo · September 9

@poei said:
Honestly this statement from Dasabo is full of holes.

They claim only "flagged" accounts got KYC but tons of ppl in the LET thread say ALL accounts were blocked, even one guy who never used a card — so that's just not true.

Also they push everyone to Stripe Identity demanding full unedited ID pics, which for some of us is actually illegal to send under our own national laws.they completly ignored that point.

Another thing — there IS a UK company called DASABO HOSTING LTD registered at Companies House, so "legally headquartered in Italy" is only half the story and so they hide which entity you actually have a contract with.

The big one tho:

Hosting/VPS is not a sector EU AML law forces KYC on, banks and sim cards yes, but renting a server no, and quoting "European laws" without naming a single one is a huge flag in itself. Saying "most complainers just used fake data" with zero proof is just throwing mud at customers to dodge the question. And locking people out of there own paid accounts so they cant even open a ticket while sending from a no-reply email isn't "compliance", it's hostage tactics.

So ya, this is spin dressed up as regulation.

Hello @poei ,
The fact that several users on a forum are complaining about receiving a verification email does not mean that all users are affected; claiming "everyone" is involved without even knowing our total customer count is factually incorrect, especially since we have never disclosed how many customers we actually have.
I fail to understand this ongoing phobia regarding KYC, though there is little we can do about it. For us, KYC is not a game; there is a specific reason why we require it. My primary responsibility is to protect my company against potential legal action whether current or future. We must comply with both European and Italian laws, and these regulations do not always align perfectly.
Regarding your point about Stripe Identity and unedited documents: that assumption is also incorrect. Let me give you a concrete example: for Dutch citizens, Stripe requires certain parts of the identity document to be masked before uploading. If this isn't done, Stripe rejects the document and marks the KYC process as incomplete in order to comply with local Dutch regulations.
We use Stripe Identity precisely because we recognize it as a robust solution for ensuring legal compliance across the various countries where we conduct KYC checks.
As for Dasabo Hosting LTD as you could see for yourself on Companies House the company was dissolved in 2025. Why tell only part of the story or manipulate the facts to misrepresent the situation?
When a user employs false data to evade taxes and avoid paying the correct amount, who bears the consequences the user or Dasabo?
There are many aspects you are unwilling to consider or acknowledge, along with others I haven't even mentioned.
When a user provides false data because they are from a blacklisted country and thus ineligible to purchase from us in the first place who faces the repercussions?
I do not wish to dwell on this any further, but I hope I have provided a clearer picture of the situation.
Regards.
Dave

arirang · September 9

@AnthonySmith said: I am not getting into the ins and outs of this specific case, but I think it needs to be said that it is a bit unfair to attack any host for doing KYC, I promise you they are not doing it for fun. There is an ever-evolving shitstorm of nanny-state " protect the children " regulations being completely enforced and pushed on to small businesses within Europe at a rate no one can keep up.

No problem with KYC, as long as they give people who don’t want to go through it a reasonable amount of time to back up their data and provide a refund.

AnthonySmith · September 9

@arirang said:

@AnthonySmith said: I am not getting into the ins and outs of this specific case, but I think it needs to be said that it is a bit unfair to attack any host for doing KYC, I promise you they are not doing it for fun. There is an ever-evolving shitstorm of nanny-state " protect the children " regulations being completely enforced and pushed on to small businesses within Europe at a rate no one can keep up.

No problem with KYC, as long as they give people who don’t want to go through it a reasonable amount of time to back up their data and provide a refund.

Completely reasonable.

yucchun · September 9

@Dasabo said:

@poei said:
Honestly this statement from Dasabo is full of holes.

They claim only "flagged" accounts got KYC but tons of ppl in the LET thread say ALL accounts were blocked, even one guy who never used a card — so that's just not true.

Also they push everyone to Stripe Identity demanding full unedited ID pics, which for some of us is actually illegal to send under our own national laws.they completly ignored that point.

Another thing — there IS a UK company called DASABO HOSTING LTD registered at Companies House, so "legally headquartered in Italy" is only half the story and so they hide which entity you actually have a contract with.

The big one tho:

Hosting/VPS is not a sector EU AML law forces KYC on, banks and sim cards yes, but renting a server no, and quoting "European laws" without naming a single one is a huge flag in itself. Saying "most complainers just used fake data" with zero proof is just throwing mud at customers to dodge the question. And locking people out of there own paid accounts so they cant even open a ticket while sending from a no-reply email isn't "compliance", it's hostage tactics.

So ya, this is spin dressed up as regulation.

Hello @poei ,
The fact that several users on a forum are complaining about receiving a verification email does not mean that all users are affected; claiming "everyone" is involved without even knowing our total customer count is factually incorrect, especially since we have never disclosed how many customers we actually have.
I fail to understand this ongoing phobia regarding KYC, though there is little we can do about it. For us, KYC is not a game; there is a specific reason why we require it. My primary responsibility is to protect my company against potential legal action whether current or future. We must comply with both European and Italian laws, and these regulations do not always align perfectly.
Regarding your point about Stripe Identity and unedited documents: that assumption is also incorrect. Let me give you a concrete example: for Dutch citizens, Stripe requires certain parts of the identity document to be masked before uploading. If this isn't done, Stripe rejects the document and marks the KYC process as incomplete in order to comply with local Dutch regulations.
We use Stripe Identity precisely because we recognize it as a robust solution for ensuring legal compliance across the various countries where we conduct KYC checks.
As for Dasabo Hosting LTD as you could see for yourself on Companies House the company was dissolved in 2025. Why tell only part of the story or manipulate the facts to misrepresent the situation?
When a user employs false data to evade taxes and avoid paying the correct amount, who bears the consequences the user or Dasabo?
There are many aspects you are unwilling to consider or acknowledge, along with others I haven't even mentioned.
When a user provides false data because they are from a blacklisted country and thus ineligible to purchase from us in the first place who faces the repercussions?
I do not wish to dwell on this any further, but I hope I have provided a clearer picture of the situation.
Regards.
Dave

Hey there Dave, Dasabo client here.

My account has been blocked, and I have no way of being able to cancel my servers, or doing anything, including contacting your support, without providing my data to both you and Stripe, Stripe being a company I never agreed to sharing my data with at the time of registration or within your terms. I also did not use their payment gateway.

I mean this in no rude way, but I expect to not be charged for the server I have in my account with these factors in mind and auto-renewal coming up. Considering I am not able to access my account or perform any of those actions, if you do not have a publicly available support e-mail (which I know you do not, I just searched for it), I advise making one seen so that customers that do not agree with your KYC policy can properly cancel their services without being double charged.

Dasabo · September 9

@yucchun said:

@Dasabo said:

@poei said:
Honestly this statement from Dasabo is full of holes.

They claim only "flagged" accounts got KYC but tons of ppl in the LET thread say ALL accounts were blocked, even one guy who never used a card — so that's just not true.

Also they push everyone to Stripe Identity demanding full unedited ID pics, which for some of us is actually illegal to send under our own national laws.they completly ignored that point.

Another thing — there IS a UK company called DASABO HOSTING LTD registered at Companies House, so "legally headquartered in Italy" is only half the story and so they hide which entity you actually have a contract with.

The big one tho:

Hosting/VPS is not a sector EU AML law forces KYC on, banks and sim cards yes, but renting a server no, and quoting "European laws" without naming a single one is a huge flag in itself. Saying "most complainers just used fake data" with zero proof is just throwing mud at customers to dodge the question. And locking people out of there own paid accounts so they cant even open a ticket while sending from a no-reply email isn't "compliance", it's hostage tactics.

So ya, this is spin dressed up as regulation.

Hello @poei ,
The fact that several users on a forum are complaining about receiving a verification email does not mean that all users are affected; claiming "everyone" is involved without even knowing our total customer count is factually incorrect, especially since we have never disclosed how many customers we actually have.
I fail to understand this ongoing phobia regarding KYC, though there is little we can do about it. For us, KYC is not a game; there is a specific reason why we require it. My primary responsibility is to protect my company against potential legal action whether current or future. We must comply with both European and Italian laws, and these regulations do not always align perfectly.
Regarding your point about Stripe Identity and unedited documents: that assumption is also incorrect. Let me give you a concrete example: for Dutch citizens, Stripe requires certain parts of the identity document to be masked before uploading. If this isn't done, Stripe rejects the document and marks the KYC process as incomplete in order to comply with local Dutch regulations.
We use Stripe Identity precisely because we recognize it as a robust solution for ensuring legal compliance across the various countries where we conduct KYC checks.
As for Dasabo Hosting LTD as you could see for yourself on Companies House the company was dissolved in 2025. Why tell only part of the story or manipulate the facts to misrepresent the situation?
When a user employs false data to evade taxes and avoid paying the correct amount, who bears the consequences the user or Dasabo?
There are many aspects you are unwilling to consider or acknowledge, along with others I haven't even mentioned.
When a user provides false data because they are from a blacklisted country and thus ineligible to purchase from us in the first place who faces the repercussions?
I do not wish to dwell on this any further, but I hope I have provided a clearer picture of the situation.
Regards.
Dave

Hey there Dave, Dasabo client here.

My account has been blocked, and I have no way of being able to cancel my servers, or doing anything, including contacting your support, without providing my data to both you and Stripe, Stripe being a company I never agreed to sharing my data with at the time of registration or within your terms. I also did not use their payment gateway.

I mean this in no rude way, but I expect to not be charged by the server I have in my account with these factors in mind and auto-renewal coming up. Considering I am not able to access my account or perform any of those actions, if you do not have a publicly available support e-mail (which I know you do not, I just searched for it), I advise making one seen so that customers that do not agree with your KYC policy can properly cancel their services without being double charged.

Hello Yucchun,
Feel free to contact us via live chat. Please note that once the 10-day period expires, accounts for which KYC has not been completed will be closed and services terminated; therefore, there will be no automatic renewal in any case.
As for the claim that you never agreed to share your data during registration or purchase, that isn't true which leads me to assume you accepted the agreement without reading it...
P.S. Access to the service has not been suspended, so you can back up your data during this period.

yucchun · September 9

@Dasabo said:

@yucchun said:

@Dasabo said:

@poei said:
Honestly this statement from Dasabo is full of holes.

They claim only "flagged" accounts got KYC but tons of ppl in the LET thread say ALL accounts were blocked, even one guy who never used a card — so that's just not true.

Also they push everyone to Stripe Identity demanding full unedited ID pics, which for some of us is actually illegal to send under our own national laws.they completly ignored that point.

Another thing — there IS a UK company called DASABO HOSTING LTD registered at Companies House, so "legally headquartered in Italy" is only half the story and so they hide which entity you actually have a contract with.

The big one tho:

Hosting/VPS is not a sector EU AML law forces KYC on, banks and sim cards yes, but renting a server no, and quoting "European laws" without naming a single one is a huge flag in itself. Saying "most complainers just used fake data" with zero proof is just throwing mud at customers to dodge the question. And locking people out of there own paid accounts so they cant even open a ticket while sending from a no-reply email isn't "compliance", it's hostage tactics.

So ya, this is spin dressed up as regulation.

Hello @poei ,
The fact that several users on a forum are complaining about receiving a verification email does not mean that all users are affected; claiming "everyone" is involved without even knowing our total customer count is factually incorrect, especially since we have never disclosed how many customers we actually have.
I fail to understand this ongoing phobia regarding KYC, though there is little we can do about it. For us, KYC is not a game; there is a specific reason why we require it. My primary responsibility is to protect my company against potential legal action whether current or future. We must comply with both European and Italian laws, and these regulations do not always align perfectly.
Regarding your point about Stripe Identity and unedited documents: that assumption is also incorrect. Let me give you a concrete example: for Dutch citizens, Stripe requires certain parts of the identity document to be masked before uploading. If this isn't done, Stripe rejects the document and marks the KYC process as incomplete in order to comply with local Dutch regulations.
We use Stripe Identity precisely because we recognize it as a robust solution for ensuring legal compliance across the various countries where we conduct KYC checks.
As for Dasabo Hosting LTD as you could see for yourself on Companies House the company was dissolved in 2025. Why tell only part of the story or manipulate the facts to misrepresent the situation?
When a user employs false data to evade taxes and avoid paying the correct amount, who bears the consequences the user or Dasabo?
There are many aspects you are unwilling to consider or acknowledge, along with others I haven't even mentioned.
When a user provides false data because they are from a blacklisted country and thus ineligible to purchase from us in the first place who faces the repercussions?
I do not wish to dwell on this any further, but I hope I have provided a clearer picture of the situation.
Regards.
Dave

Hey there Dave, Dasabo client here.

My account has been blocked, and I have no way of being able to cancel my servers, or doing anything, including contacting your support, without providing my data to both you and Stripe, Stripe being a company I never agreed to sharing my data with at the time of registration or within your terms. I also did not use their payment gateway.

I mean this in no rude way, but I expect to not be charged by the server I have in my account with these factors in mind and auto-renewal coming up. Considering I am not able to access my account or perform any of those actions, if you do not have a publicly available support e-mail (which I know you do not, I just searched for it), I advise making one seen so that customers that do not agree with your KYC policy can properly cancel their services without being double charged.

Hello Yucchun,
Feel free to contact us via live chat. Please note that once the 10-day period expires, accounts for which KYC has not been completed will be closed and services terminated; therefore, there will be no automatic renewal in any case.
As for the claim that you never agreed to share your data during registration or purchase, that isn't true which leads me to assume you accepted the agreement without reading it...
P.S. Access to the service has not been suspended, so you can back up your data during this period.

Sorry, to clarify, I didn't agree to share it with Stripe.
I totally agreed to share it with you, even put in my accurate details!

I will contact through the live support feature. If you are able to add an e-mail, it will be great too, as Crisp does not run well on my browser. (Safari) LowEndSpirit - VPS Hosting and tech forum

ionut · September 9

WHAT LAWS FORCE YOU TO DO KYC FOR?? @Dasabo

AnthonySmith · September 9

@ionut said:
WHAT LAWS FORCE YOU TO DO KYC FOR?? @Dasabo

If I had to guess, its probably a combination being forced by Stripe due to a chargeback threshold being triggered, and a local interpretation of an Italian TLC provider needing KYC, giving them really no choice.

I don't really see the problem. I would imagine everyone trusts stripe more than they trust an independent business with their data, and it seems free will and choice is available: back up and move out, or accept the KYC check; no one is really forcing anyone to do anything.

I am not trying to be a white knight here; I genuinely don't understand the accusatory hate in this thread. Voting with your $$ is the strongest feedback anyone can give. If a business wants to implement KYC, they don't require any specific Law to do it, it may be self-preservation. It is amazing how a handful of idiots can literally take out a business with stupid, unethical behaviour.

Dasabo · September 9

@AnthonySmith said:

@ionut said:
WHAT LAWS FORCE YOU TO DO KYC FOR?? @Dasabo

If I had to guess, its probably a combination being forced by Stripe due to a chargeback threshold being triggered, and a local interpretation of an Italian TLC provider needing KYC, giving them really no choice.

I don't really see the problem. I would imagine everyone trusts stripe more than they trust an independent business with their data, and it seems free will and choice is available: back up and move out, or accept the KYC check; no one is really forcing anyone to do anything.

I am not trying to be a white knight here; I genuinely don't understand the accusatory hate in this thread. Voting with your $$ is the strongest feedback anyone can give. If a business wants to implement KYC, they don't require any specific Law to do it, it may be self-preservation. It is amazing how a handful of idiots can literally take out a business with stupid, unethical behaviour.

@AnthonySmith & @ionut
Your interpretation is correct; I don't fully understand it either, but I am certain of one thing a certainty I don't need to prove publicly, as it serves no purpose, but which is enough for us to understand our course of action.
98% of the users who currently refuse to complete KYC clearly used false information during registration such as payment methods that are difficult to trace (like debit cards issued by foreign companies that rarely perform genuine KYC on their customers before issuance) or VPNs to mask their actual residence and nationality.
Some of these practices are illegal, while others violate our Terms of Service. Why complain about KYC now when our Terms and Conditions expressly accepted during the ordering process have always stated that using false data, failing to disclose one's identity upon request, or failing to promptly update information when it changes is prohibited?
As far as I know, providing false information during an online purchase is illegal in virtually every country in the world, so I truly fail to see why this comes as a surprise.
We have already factored in the loss of some users due to KYC, but we would rather lose them than face far more serious legal repercussions down the line. As you rightly pointed out, no one is forced to complete KYC with us, just as we are not obliged to keep you as a customer; it is very simple. To address the user who is shouting while asking their question: there are various laws that directly or indirectly require us to perform KYC checks on our clients for instance, the E-Commerce Decree (Legislative Decree 70/2003) and the Obligation to Cooperate, the NIS2 Directive (Legislative Decree 138/2024), Data Retention rules (Art. 132 of the Privacy Code – Legislative Decree 196/2003), and tax obligations (Presidential Decree 633/1972), among others though I won't list them all, or else we might end up becoming lawyers and changing professions...

A personal observation, quite apart from all this:
Since joining this forum, we immediately noticed a difference compared to the other "green" forum. Here, administrators and moderators don't take sides out of bias; if you as an individual user or customer dislike the way a company conducts itself, you simply don't buy from that company.
The hosting market is so vast that there is a huge range of choices there are customers out there for everyone.

AnthonySmith · September 9

@Dasabo said: Since joining this forum, we immediately noticed a difference compared to the other "green" forum. Here, administrators and moderators don't take sides out of bias

I am probably guilty of bias, to be fair; I am human, but I am getting better at just taking things for what they are. No one owes anyone anything, really; just be fair about things and give people a choice. You can't please everyone; there is no point in trying.

I get shouted at and insulted for not accepting crypto, haha. Ironically, if we started accepting crypto, we would also have to start collecting and storing personal information as well because of UK regulations, which blows people's minds.

I also get things wrong often; shit happens.

hellbound · September 9

@Dasabo said: Since joining this forum, we immediately noticed a difference compared to the other "green" forum.

Obviously there's a difference. They're two completely separate forums. But if you really want to know whether it's actually different or not, why not start a thread for members to vote on whether they'd like you to continue as a provider here or step away

lleddewk · September 9

Vote with your wallet. They won't stay if they don't make money but they will stay if they do. Then you'll have your answer.

Keith

Dasabo · September 9

@AnthonySmith said:

@Dasabo said: Since joining this forum, we immediately noticed a difference compared to the other "green" forum. Here, administrators and moderators don't take sides out of bias

I am probably guilty of bias, to be fair; I am human, but I am getting better at just taking things for what they are. No one owes anyone anything, really; just be fair about things and give people a choice. You can't please everyone; there is no point in trying.

I get shouted at and insulted for not accepting crypto, haha. Ironically, if we started accepting crypto, we would also have to start collecting and storing personal information as well because of UK regulations, which blows people's minds.

I also get things wrong often; shit happens.

I completely agree with you...
We used to accept crypto in the past albeit with some difficulty but since incorporating the company in Italy, we have been trying to find the right, tax-efficient method to start accepting it again; however, I don't know when that might happen, or if it will even be possible in the future.

Dasabo · September 9

@hellbound said:

@Dasabo said: Since joining this forum, we immediately noticed a difference compared to the other "green" forum.

Obviously there's a difference. They're two completely separate forums. But if you really want to know whether it's actually different or not, why not start a thread for members to vote on whether they'd like you to continue as a provider here or step away

These are two totally distinct and separate situations, and that decision was made at a specific time and under specific conditions.
You could start the same thread yourself; the provider doesn't necessarily have to be the one to do it.
There is certainly a substantial and clear difference between the two; here, to this day, I haven't seen an administrator or moderator insult or mock a member...

davide · September 9

@Dasabo said:

@AnthonySmith said:

@Dasabo said: Since joining this forum, we immediately noticed a difference compared to the other "green" forum. Here, administrators and moderators don't take sides out of bias

I am probably guilty of bias, to be fair; I am human, but I am getting better at just taking things for what they are. No one owes anyone anything, really; just be fair about things and give people a choice. You can't please everyone; there is no point in trying.

I get shouted at and insulted for not accepting crypto, haha. Ironically, if we started accepting crypto, we would also have to start collecting and storing personal information as well because of UK regulations, which blows people's minds.

I also get things wrong often; shit happens.

I completely agree with you...
We used to accept crypto in the past albeit with some difficulty but since incorporating the company in Italy, we have been trying to find the right, tax-efficient method to start accepting it again; however, I don't know when that might happen, or if it will even be possible in the future.

I filed an F24 for crypto once and yes compiling it was remarkably bastard, in a southern/eastern-European, lack-of-normative-clarity, mongoloid-government kind of way, but it wasn't impossible in hindsight. I wrote a nodejs program for the FIFO method if you want it, it can read historical trades from Binance, Kraken, and the bitcoind deamon and trace transactions within and across exchanges to assign the correct bases. It outputs the capital gain/loss for a given period, eg. for a tax year. After it prints this number, then you would have to manually apply the time-decaying rebates for any capital losses sustained the previous years, according to the ever-changing tax rules and the ever-changing adjustment factors published for sure somewhere on some government website on some PDF with some random numerical title, scattered among a thousand of other nameless PDFs, and sorted randomly. This is what I went thru; the accounting is the easiest part, the reporting will cost you either time and sanity, or money for an accountant.

Dasabo · September 9

@davide said:

@Dasabo said:

@AnthonySmith said:

@Dasabo said: Since joining this forum, we immediately noticed a difference compared to the other "green" forum. Here, administrators and moderators don't take sides out of bias

I am probably guilty of bias, to be fair; I am human, but I am getting better at just taking things for what they are. No one owes anyone anything, really; just be fair about things and give people a choice. You can't please everyone; there is no point in trying.

I get shouted at and insulted for not accepting crypto, haha. Ironically, if we started accepting crypto, we would also have to start collecting and storing personal information as well because of UK regulations, which blows people's minds.

I also get things wrong often; shit happens.

I completely agree with you...
We used to accept crypto in the past albeit with some difficulty but since incorporating the company in Italy, we have been trying to find the right, tax-efficient method to start accepting it again; however, I don't know when that might happen, or if it will even be possible in the future.

I filed an F24 for crypto once and yes compiling it was remarkably bastard, in a southern/eastern-European, lack-of-normative-clarity, mongoloid-government kind of way, but it wasn't impossible in hindsight. I wrote a nodejs program for the FIFO method if you want it, it can read historical trades from Binance, Kraken, and the bitcoind deamon and trace transactions within and across exchanges to assign the correct bases. It outputs the capital gain/loss for a given period, eg. for a tax year. After it prints this number, then you would have to manually apply the time-decaying rebates for any capital losses sustained the previous years, according to the ever-changing tax rules and the ever-changing adjustment factors published for sure somewhere on some government website on some PDF with some random numerical title, scattered among a thousand of other nameless PDFs, and sorted randomly. This is what I went thru; the accounting is the easiest part, the reporting will cost you either time and sanity, or money for an accountant.

That applies to the private sphere; in a corporate context, our Agenzia delle Entrate expects crypto to be immediately converted into a stable equivalent such as euros along with a whole host of other hassles. I wouldn't say it’s impossible for a company to accept crypto in Italy, but the issue is very delicate and quite complicated; to date, we haven't found a solution that makes accepting crypto worthwhile again, even though I’ve been a huge crypto enthusiast since 2014.

ascicode · September 9

It all has an affect, you want to throw all lowend customers out. Since you lost empathy on OGF, there was no reason to hold them for longer.
Since you had that option for KYC from beginning and could write that after changing company, or after starting a company, you wouldnt be in this situation.
Now trying to keep customers money without giving proper service is a no-go. I would either terminate to end of the contract and let them use the service, since you allready accepted them, not abruptly.

Chargebacks can harm your stripe account and could take it on hold or closed.

Dasabo · September 9

@ascicode said:
It all has an affect, you want to throw all lowend customers out. Since you lost empathy on OGF, there was no reason to hold them for longer.
Since you had that option for KYC from beginning and could write that after changing company, or after starting a company, you wouldnt be in this situation.
Now trying to keep customers money without giving proper service is a no-go. I would either terminate to end of the contract and let them use the service, since you allready accepted them, not abruptly.

Chargebacks can harm your stripe account and could take it on hold or closed.

Please note that we are honoring the contract; the services remain active and usable, with access to the customer area restricted only for those required to complete the KYC process.
We are not intimidated by threats of disputes; the client is free to initiate a baseless dispute if they see fit, but the contract has been signed, and they agreed to the terms including the requirement that data provided must be truthful rather than false. Consequently, in the event of a dispute, we will provide all relevant evidence to Stripe.
In the event that a client subject to KYC verification fails to complete the process or submits false data by the deadline, the service will be terminated and the account closed, in accordance with the contract.

poei · September 10

FWIW, and why it rubs me the wrong way, I registered for my services with you with my REAL information and REAL payment method (CC). Then, to have my account cut off, and you blow smoke up my (and others) asses that I must be doing something illegal or nefarious.

This KYC push collapses under its own contradictions. You're original notice claims KYC is a "mandatory legal requirement," yet you later admit nobody is forced to comply (a legal mandate and a voluntary business choice can't both be true). Despite being repeatedly asked, you never cite any law that actually obliges VPS providers to run identity checks (the ones eventually named) (NIS2), from what read of that, only apply to data retention rules, VAT decrees, govern cybersecurity duties, telecom metadata, and taxation, not customer ID verification for hosting, and EU anti-money-laundering law doesn't cover this sector either, suggesting the real driver hear is Stripe payments risk dressed up in regulatory language.

The "98% of refusers used fake data" claim is a BS invented, unprovable statistic used to smear complaining customers, the scope story shifts between "only flagged accounts" and reports of everyone being blocked, and meanwhile locked-out customers with no reply-capable contact channel can't even cancel paid services before auto-renewal, a process that's not about compliance, but coercing submissions, with likely explanations (chargeback thresholds, self-preservation) presented as legal necessity.

I needed to translate the TOS from Italian but couldn't see anything about the use of a VPN being illegal in it. (Section 3, "Attività Vietate"), the general use principles, the customer obligations, even the privacy policy's fraud-prevention purposes, and here is no clause prohibiting VPN use, or masking one's location at purchase. Please feel free to prove me incorrect here.

TL;DR

Whatevs. Bye Felicia.

AnthonySmith · September 10

@poei said: FWIW, and why it rubs me the wrong way, I registered for my services with you with my REAL information and REAL payment method (CC). Then, to have my account cut off, and you blow smoke up my (and others) asses that I must be doing something illegal or nefarious.

I assume you are able to keep access to services at the end of the paid billing period, even if you opt not to comply, right? Or did I miss a beat?

yoursunny · September 10

@AnthonySmith said:

@poei said: FWIW, and why it rubs me the wrong way, I registered for my services with you with my REAL information and REAL payment method (CC). Then, to have my account cut off, and you blow smoke up my (and others) asses that I must be doing something illegal or nefarious.

I assume you are able to keep access to services at the end of the paid billing period, even if you opt not to comply, right? Or did I miss a beat?

From other reports, the client is unable to open tickets.
The ability to open tickets and obtain support is part of the service.
Hence, we won't call this situation as "able to keep access to services".

AnthonySmith · September 10

@yoursunny said: From other reports, the client is unable to open tickets.
The ability to open tickets and obtain support is part of the service.
Hence, we won't call this situation as "able to keep access to services".

Well, I am not really trying to be pedantic; I am trying to understand if the core service is being retained until the end of the billing period. I presume no one is paying for support or an SLA for their VPS.

yoursunny · September 10

@AnthonySmith said:

@yoursunny said: From other reports, the client is unable to open tickets.
The ability to open tickets and obtain support is part of the service.
Hence, we won't call this situation as "able to keep access to services".

Well, I am not really trying to be pedantic; I am trying to understand if the core service is being retained until the end of the billing period. I presume no one is paying for support or an SLA for their VPS.

https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/4861806/#Comment_4861806
Please note that once the 10-day period expires, accounts for which KYC has not been completed will be closed and services terminated

VPS deletion is planned.

AnthonySmith · September 10

@yoursunny said:

@AnthonySmith said:

@yoursunny said: From other reports, the client is unable to open tickets.
The ability to open tickets and obtain support is part of the service.
Hence, we won't call this situation as "able to keep access to services".

Well, I am not really trying to be pedantic; I am trying to understand if the core service is being retained until the end of the billing period. I presume no one is paying for support or an SLA for their VPS.

https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/4861806/#Comment_4861806
Please note that once the 10-day period expires, accounts for which KYC has not been completed will be closed and services terminated

VPS deletion is planned.

Right..... I missed a beat.

LowEndSpirit - VPS Hosting and tech forum

I guess that downvote button is going to get some action.

There are lots of obvious questions; I am not going to ask them.

cybertech · September 10

chargeback yesterday.

gomi · September 10

@Dasabo said: 98% of the users who currently refuse to complete KYC clearly used false information during registration such as payment methods that are difficult to trace (like debit cards issued by foreign companies that rarely perform genuine KYC on their customers before issuance) or VPNs to mask their actual residence and nationality.

Therefore, in the future, even when purchasing a standard VPS, one would have to provide all of one's personal information without reservation to a hosting provider that is unknown to the user, even though many new “summer providers” appear each summer. This is not a challenge, but a request for confirmation on whether European providers will no longer be available for an ordinary person who simply wants to get an old e5 vps.

ahnlak · September 10

@gomi said:

@Dasabo said: 98% of the users who currently refuse to complete KYC clearly used false information during registration such as payment methods that are difficult to trace (like debit cards issued by foreign companies that rarely perform genuine KYC on their customers before issuance) or VPNs to mask their actual residence and nationality.

Therefore, in the future, even when purchasing a standard VPS, one would have to provide all of one's personal information without reservation to a hosting provider that is unknown to the user, even though many new “summer providers” appear each summer. This is not a challenge, but a request for confirmation on whether European providers will no longer be available for an ordinary person who simply wants to get an old e5 vps.

If you don't trust a provider enough to tell them your real name, why the hell are you trusting them with your VPS data?

Dasabo · September 10

@poei said:
FWIW, and why it rubs me the wrong way, I registered for my services with you with my REAL information and REAL payment method (CC). Then, to have my account cut off, and you blow smoke up my (and others) asses that I must be doing something illegal or nefarious.

This KYC push collapses under its own contradictions. You're original notice claims KYC is a "mandatory legal requirement," yet you later admit nobody is forced to comply (a legal mandate and a voluntary business choice can't both be true). Despite being repeatedly asked, you never cite any law that actually obliges VPS providers to run identity checks (the ones eventually named) (NIS2), from what read of that, only apply to data retention rules, VAT decrees, govern cybersecurity duties, telecom metadata, and taxation, not customer ID verification for hosting, and EU anti-money-laundering law doesn't cover this sector either, suggesting the real driver hear is Stripe payments risk dressed up in regulatory language.

The "98% of refusers used fake data" claim is a BS invented, unprovable statistic used to smear complaining customers, the scope story shifts between "only flagged accounts" and reports of everyone being blocked, and meanwhile locked-out customers with no reply-capable contact channel can't even cancel paid services before auto-renewal, a process that's not about compliance, but coercing submissions, with likely explanations (chargeback thresholds, self-preservation) presented as legal necessity.

I needed to translate the TOS from Italian but couldn't see anything about the use of a VPN being illegal in it. (Section 3, "Attività Vietate"), the general use principles, the customer obligations, even the privacy policy's fraud-prevention purposes, and here is no clause prohibiting VPN use, or masking one's location at purchase. Please feel free to prove me incorrect here.

TL;DR

Whatevs. Bye Felicia.

Hello @poei,
I will certainly respond to your statements, and I note a misinterpretation of our texts.
Q: This KYC push collapses under its own contradictions...
A: I reiterate that this is a mandatory requirement for us as a company; if you were to read the cited laws in their entirety, you would see that directly or indirectly they place the responsibility on us to ensure that our customers' data is accurate, up-to-date, and verified.
There is simply no law of the kind you describe specifically for "VPS providers," because "VPS providers" do not exist as a distinct category; instead, there are telecommunications service providers, and VPS services fall under the umbrella of telecommunications services.

Q: The "98% of refusers used fake data" claim is a BS invented..
A: I have already addressed this by stating precisely that this figure is both unverifiable and irrelevant in this context just as it is impossible to prove the claim that all our clients have received the KYC request.
It is also false to claim that we cannot be contacted because the customer area is frozen until the user completes KYC; in fact, our website features live chat, and our email address is listed in the "Consumer Information" section of the terms and conditions.

Q: I needed to translate the TOS from Italian but...
A: Using a VPN is not illegal in itself; however, it becomes illegal when you deliberately obscure your nationality by providing false tax and personal information to evade tax or security checks thereby simulating residence in a country other than your actual one.
In such cases, the situation falls under Article 14.1 of our Terms of Service, which I quote here in English for informational purposes:
14.1 The Customer warrants that the personal data provided is truthful, current, and complete. The Customer undertakes to notify Dasabo of any changes within 15 days. In the event of omissions or false data, Dasabo may: refuse transactions, suspend services, reverse changes, or terminate the contract while retaining any amounts paid as a penalty.
I would like to give a concrete example of illicit use: if, for instance, you reside in Germany but use a US-based VPN and enter personal details either during the order process or subsequently as if you were American, you are deliberately committing an offense under European and Italian regulations regarding electronic transactions and, furthermore, violating Article 14.1 of our Terms of Service.

For the sake of completeness, there is no law prohibiting us from periodically verifying our customers and the validity of their data; in fact, the opposite is true we are encouraged to do so because, as a company, we bear the inherent legal liability if you provide false information and commit offenses using our services (I am not implying that this applies to you).
Similarly, while we cannot force our customers to undergo KYC procedures in order to remain with us, we can take countermeasures such as ceasing to serve you to ensure our own security.

Ultimately, I really struggle to understand assuming you registered using genuine details and a valid payment method in your own name why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it, though perhaps that is a limitation on our part.

ialexpw · September 10

@Dasabo said: why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it,

I don't have a service with you and I'm not normally against KYC if necessary on sign-up with a reputable company, but I can understand if someone has signed up and been with you a while without causing issues to suddenly be told that you must provide KYC within 10 days or you're out.

Why not allow people until the end of the billing period?

Dasabo · September 10

@ialexpw said:

@Dasabo said: why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it,

I don't have a service with you and I'm not normally against KYC if necessary on sign-up with a reputable company, but I can understand if someone has signed up and been with you a while without causing issues to suddenly be told that you must provide KYC within 10 days or you're out.

Why not allow people until the end of the billing period?

Hello, and thank you for your comment.
There are specific security-related reasons why some of our users are currently required to undergo the Enhanced KYC process; I cannot disclose the specific details.
Similarly, refusing to complete the KYC process when requested raises the risk level for us regarding that client compounded by other concerns I cannot disclose. For this reason, we proceed to close the account and terminate the service.
It is not ideal I realize it is a drastic measure, and I acknowledge that we will lose customers but it is the least painful option for us from a security standpoint.
Since arriving in Italy, we have obtained various certifications that allow us to operate in the public sector and sell to public administration bodies; the associated audits are quite rigorous and very strict.

Dasabo · September 10

@ahnlak said:

@gomi said:

@Dasabo said: 98% of the users who currently refuse to complete KYC clearly used false information during registration such as payment methods that are difficult to trace (like debit cards issued by foreign companies that rarely perform genuine KYC on their customers before issuance) or VPNs to mask their actual residence and nationality.

Therefore, in the future, even when purchasing a standard VPS, one would have to provide all of one's personal information without reservation to a hosting provider that is unknown to the user, even though many new “summer providers” appear each summer. This is not a challenge, but a request for confirmation on whether European providers will no longer be available for an ordinary person who simply wants to get an old e5 vps.

If you don't trust a provider enough to tell them your real name, why the hell are you trusting them with your VPS data?

I consider your interpretation correct...

Dasabo · September 10

@gomi said:

@Dasabo said: 98% of the users who currently refuse to complete KYC clearly used false information during registration such as payment methods that are difficult to trace (like debit cards issued by foreign companies that rarely perform genuine KYC on their customers before issuance) or VPNs to mask their actual residence and nationality.

Therefore, in the future, even when purchasing a standard VPS, one would have to provide all of one's personal information without reservation to a hosting provider that is unknown to the user, even though many new “summer providers” appear each summer. This is not a challenge, but a request for confirmation on whether European providers will no longer be available for an ordinary person who simply wants to get an old e5 vps.

This isn't a future development; things have practically always been this way. The fact that other colleagues do not perform KYC checks on their clients is no concern of ours and is not in our interest; each of us makes our own assessments regarding security.
Clients are free to choose the provider that best suits their needs and requirements.
We, too, have been called "Summer Hosts" on forums; I would be curious in a lighthearted way to know exactly how many summers ago this label refers to, considering we have been in the market for several years.

ascicode · September 10

@Dasabo said:

@ialexpw said:

@Dasabo said: why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it,

I don't have a service with you and I'm not normally against KYC if necessary on sign-up with a reputable company, but I can understand if someone has signed up and been with you a while without causing issues to suddenly be told that you must provide KYC within 10 days or you're out.

Why not allow people until the end of the billing period?

Hello, and thank you for your comment.
There are specific security-related reasons why some of our users are currently required to undergo the Enhanced KYC process; I cannot disclose the specific details.
Similarly, refusing to complete the KYC process when requested raises the risk level for us regarding that client compounded by other concerns I cannot disclose. For this reason, we proceed to close the account and terminate the service.
It is not ideal I realize it is a drastic measure, and I acknowledge that we will lose customers but it is the least painful option for us from a security standpoint.
Since arriving in Italy, we have obtained various certifications that allow us to operate in the public sector and sell to public administration bodies; the associated audits are quite rigorous and very strict.

We want to know specific details, its also important for future customers.

yoursunny · September 10

@Dasabo said:

@ialexpw said:

@Dasabo said: why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it,

I don't have a service with you and I'm not normally against KYC if necessary on sign-up with a reputable company, but I can understand if someone has signed up and been with you a while without causing issues to suddenly be told that you must provide KYC within 10 days or you're out.

Why not allow people until the end of the billing period?

Hello, and thank you for your comment.
There are specific security-related reasons why some of our users are currently required to undergo the Enhanced KYC process; I cannot disclose the specific details.
Similarly, refusing to complete the KYC process when requested raises the risk level for us regarding that client compounded by other concerns I cannot disclose. For this reason, we proceed to close the account and terminate the service.
It is not ideal I realize it is a drastic measure, and I acknowledge that we will lose customers but it is the least painful option for us from a security standpoint.
Since arriving in Italy, we have obtained various certifications that allow us to operate in the public sector and sell to public administration bodies; the associated audits are quite rigorous and very strict.

Will you provide prorated refunds (including any applicable transaction fees) for customers who choose not to undergo the Enhanced KYC process?

Dasabo · September 10

@yoursunny said:

@Dasabo said:

@ialexpw said:

@Dasabo said: why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it,

I don't have a service with you and I'm not normally against KYC if necessary on sign-up with a reputable company, but I can understand if someone has signed up and been with you a while without causing issues to suddenly be told that you must provide KYC within 10 days or you're out.

Why not allow people until the end of the billing period?

Hello, and thank you for your comment.
There are specific security-related reasons why some of our users are currently required to undergo the Enhanced KYC process; I cannot disclose the specific details.
Similarly, refusing to complete the KYC process when requested raises the risk level for us regarding that client compounded by other concerns I cannot disclose. For this reason, we proceed to close the account and terminate the service.
It is not ideal I realize it is a drastic measure, and I acknowledge that we will lose customers but it is the least painful option for us from a security standpoint.
Since arriving in Italy, we have obtained various certifications that allow us to operate in the public sector and sell to public administration bodies; the associated audits are quite rigorous and very strict.

Will you provide prorated refunds (including any applicable transaction fees) for customers who choose not to undergo the Enhanced KYC process?

Hello,
No, as stated in article 14.1 of ToS.

yoursunny · September 10

@Dasabo said:

@yoursunny said:

@Dasabo said:

@ialexpw said:

@Dasabo said: why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it,

I don't have a service with you and I'm not normally against KYC if necessary on sign-up with a reputable company, but I can understand if someone has signed up and been with you a while without causing issues to suddenly be told that you must provide KYC within 10 days or you're out.

Why not allow people until the end of the billing period?

Hello, and thank you for your comment.
There are specific security-related reasons why some of our users are currently required to undergo the Enhanced KYC process; I cannot disclose the specific details.
Similarly, refusing to complete the KYC process when requested raises the risk level for us regarding that client compounded by other concerns I cannot disclose. For this reason, we proceed to close the account and terminate the service.
It is not ideal I realize it is a drastic measure, and I acknowledge that we will lose customers but it is the least painful option for us from a security standpoint.
Since arriving in Italy, we have obtained various certifications that allow us to operate in the public sector and sell to public administration bodies; the associated audits are quite rigorous and very strict.

Will you provide prorated refunds (including any applicable transaction fees) for customers who choose not to undergo the Enhanced KYC process?

Hello,
No, as stated in article 14.1 of ToS.

So, you are using Enhanced KYC as a precursor to a robbery, correct?

ialexpw · September 10

@Dasabo said:

@yoursunny said:

@Dasabo said:

@ialexpw said:

@Dasabo said: why you are having such trouble completing a simple KYC process that requires nothing more than a valid ID document and a live photo; I truly cannot fathom it,

I don't have a service with you and I'm not normally against KYC if necessary on sign-up with a reputable company, but I can understand if someone has signed up and been with you a while without causing issues to suddenly be told that you must provide KYC within 10 days or you're out.

Why not allow people until the end of the billing period?

Hello, and thank you for your comment.
There are specific security-related reasons why some of our users are currently required to undergo the Enhanced KYC process; I cannot disclose the specific details.
Similarly, refusing to complete the KYC process when requested raises the risk level for us regarding that client compounded by other concerns I cannot disclose. For this reason, we proceed to close the account and terminate the service.
It is not ideal I realize it is a drastic measure, and I acknowledge that we will lose customers but it is the least painful option for us from a security standpoint.
Since arriving in Italy, we have obtained various certifications that allow us to operate in the public sector and sell to public administration bodies; the associated audits are quite rigorous and very strict.

Will you provide prorated refunds (including any applicable transaction fees) for customers who choose not to undergo the Enhanced KYC process?

Hello,
No, as stated in article 14.1 of ToS.

What.. so if someone has signed up to annual billing and they don't want to provide KYC (whilst they have already been using your service without issue) you're cancelling it without any type of a refund?

edit (just like this):

davide · September 10

There are other italian companies using Stripe and not asking for ID cards. Assuming it is mandatory for you to collect customers' IDs, why only some customers are affected?

AnthonySmith · September 10

@davide said: why only some customers are affected?

I guess thats because there is reason to suspect that SOME customers have fake details which would show up under audit, like:

A Person
123 Street
WTFGOAWAY
1234567

People sign up with this sort of thing, DAILY, and then complain; it's just a fact of being a host.

Most EU Businesses do have to be able to accurately identify their customers in order to hold legal accounting/books that would pass an audit by tax authorities, so he is not wrong; he is required to do it, there is also some confusion over being considered a telecommunications provider; I can understand that, in the UK this would fall under SIC codes, its kind of accurate. I presume Italy has something similar.

Recently i used LeaseWeb, they also let you isgn up, start a contract, THEN do KYC, which, if you refuse... sorry no refunds; worse still, they do it via EMAIL!!!! Even worse, their own bloody exchange server sends you an automated warning that you may have sent sensitive information and warns you against it.

My point is none of this is new, none of it is wrong; small businesses are not legal experts, regulation and law are often blurred lines, anyone who disagrees or is unsympathetic to this is just being a dick because they can, trolling, keyboard lawyers etc etc.

What I really do NOT agree with is not refunding people; if you are worried enough about the account to force KYC, you should be just as worried about a chargeback. Just move on, remove the customer, remove the burden, remove the money, give it back; everyone is square then. Reputation is a little bruised but not dead.

Not refunding will probably cause a ban here (through downvotes; now the community has that power directly) and probably directly at LET, and any searches will make people think twice; it's just not worth it. While these 2 places are not the only places to get business by a long stretch, they are SERP powerhouses; all LLM's skim them constantly, and any search for reviews reveals one LE site or the other.

My advice is @Dasabo, consider this and backtrack and agree to refund anyone who can be practically refunded when terminating; of course, this is only advice; you do not need to take it. I am not going to take any direct action myself if you decide you think this is not morally right, but I think it would go a long way toward showing strength of character and respect, and I think many people would probably change their position to "not ideal, but it is what it is"

Hopefully, the best outcome for everyone.

Dasabo · September 10

@AnthonySmith said:

@davide said: why only some customers are affected?

I guess thats because there is reason to suspect that SOME customers have fake details which would show up under audit, like:

A Person
123 Street
WTFGOAWAY
1234567

People sign up with this sort of thing, DAILY, and then complain; it's just a fact of being a host.

Most EU Businesses do have to be able to accurately identify their customers in order to hold legal accounting/books that would pass an audit by tax authorities, so he is not wrong; he is required to do it, there is also some confusion over being considered a telecommunications provider; I can understand that, in the UK this would fall under SIC codes, its kind of accurate. I presume Italy has something similar.

Recently i used LeaseWeb, they also let you isgn up, start a contract, THEN do KYC, which, if you refuse... sorry no refunds; worse still, they do it via EMAIL!!!! Even worse, their own bloody exchange server sends you an automated warning that you may have sent sensitive information and warns you against it.

My point is none of this is new, none of it is wrong; small businesses are not legal experts, regulation and law are often blurred lines, anyone who disagrees or is unsympathetic to this is just being a dick because they can, trolling, keyboard lawyers etc etc.

What I really do NOT agree with is not refunding people; if you are worried enough about the account to force KYC, you should be just as worried about a chargeback. Just move on, remove the customer, remove the burden, remove the money, give it back; everyone is square then. Reputation is a little bruised but not dead.

Not refunding will probably cause a ban here (through downvotes; now the community has that power directly) and probably directly at LET, and any searches will make people think twice; it's just not worth it. While these 2 places are not the only places to get business by a long stretch, they are SERP powerhouses; all LLM's skim them constantly, and any search for reviews reveals one LE site or the other.

My advice is @Dasabo, consider this and backtrack and agree to refund anyone who can be practically refunded when terminating; of course, this is only advice; you do not need to take it. I am not going to take any direct action myself if you decide you think this is not morally right, but I think it would go a long way toward showing strength of character and respect, and I think many people would probably change their position to "not ideal, but it is what it is"

Hopefully, the best outcome for everyone.

"A standing ovation that’s the best comment I’ve read."
The refund issue is a sticking point for us; performing KYC checks is a cost we have to bear, and it’s not a new requirement it was already part of the Terms of Service. The bottom line is that we shouldn't have to pay the price for a few unscrupulous users who fail to honor the contract they agreed to at purchase or violate e-commerce laws.
We did consider the possibility of refunds but decided to stick to our contractual terms because we don't consider ourselves at fault. Why should we be penalized if a user commits fraud or deliberately uses false information to purchase our services?
Then there’s the tax issue: suppose a user refusing KYC provided details from a non-VAT country illegally using the reverse-charge mechanism but we later discover they were actually German. We would then have to file a late VAT declaration and face the resulting penalties. Who pays for all that? We do. Essentially, this would end up costing us more money than anything else.
We’ve weighed many factors, and as I’ve said we are fully aware that we will unfortunately lose some existing customers, but we’ve balanced all the pros and cons.
Generally speaking, users don't complain about the service itself it’s clearly high-quality and well-liked but they do object to the KYC requirement. That’s what I don't understand: many customers who received the KYC request completed it without batting an eye. It’s actually funny and I could prove this but some users finished the verification process and had their accounts reactivated just minutes after receiving the email. Regarding the chargeback issue, I can tell you right now that we haven't received any yet even though I’ve read comments from users claiming to have initiated them at least a day ago. This is strange, as chargebacks usually show up on Stripe immediately. That said, we have anticipated this scenario and are prepared to contest every single one, as we believe we have solid grounds for our defense.
Ultimately, we cannot and certainly do not want to pay for errors that were not of our making; that would be a bit like making the accuser pay the criminal's penalty something I find neither morally nor financially right.
We are human, and like everyone else, we pay the price when we make mistakes; to date, we have always owned up to our errors one way or another. Time will tell whether we were right and whether we acted correctly or made a mistake somewhere along the line.
At this moment, our course of action reflects our decisions, and I am not worried about the future.

Update: Regarding the question of whether there is a registry for telecommunications operators in Italy, I can confirm that such a registry exists and is subject to licensing requirements known as the ROC (an acronym for Registro degli Operatori di Telecomunicazioni); Dasabo holds this license.

AnthonySmith · September 10

Fair enough, imposing your terms for a proportional cost recovery is your choice, and it sounds like you are standing firm on it.

I suspect that, when you have not been able to communicate effectively on any platform without getting a ton of bad comments for years to come, you might question whether you would now pay the difference to not have to deal with it, but that is your decision to make.

I have no skin in this game, so I am exiting this thread now.

AnthonySmith · September 10

Wow, that was fast. Well, hopefully this is a good example of the new powers the community has to manage the forum collectively, if nothing else.

Host effectively removed by downvotes not by staff.

rpqu · September 10

Wtf

Das abo KYC

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