@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
@qqlikelo said: You know that only the customer is injured. Do you still want to do this? I am the injured customer. The trafficker taught me a lesson with you. Do you want to hear some advice? Let me talk about my thoughts. That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties. And they are prohibited from continuing to modify anything that can be sold, such as modifying mailboxes. It's really painful to suspend the service directly. I paid more, but I was sanctioned by you.
I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here? Your recommendation:
That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties.
We're basically doing this and we're not imposing penalties because it doesn't make sense for 99% of people when the imposed fee is $25. If anyone is interested in paying the fee, then we can dedicate a good amount of time to that case to resolve it. We're not forcing this fee.
What service did you have, and how much did you pay for it, and why?
Again,you didn't notify your customers about this cleanup and why.
You agreed to this when you purchased your VPS.
Customer acknowledges that any prohibited activity as described in VirMach’s Acceptable Usage Policy may result in immediate cancellation/termination without refund or notice.
@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
Yep.But he didn't.
If you want to continue your lies you really need to remember that out of everyone, you're the person I can 100% check since you came here for assistance. What's the point?
Recent Emails
10/20/2022 00:14 - Important - Service Suspended
Why would we suspend and not send a suspension email? It's technically a possibility but I can see here you received it. What difference does it make for you if you receive an email, we wait a little bit, then we send the suspension one as a second email? All it would do is allow a window of additional abuse and people trying to sell their service to another unsuspecting customer. Is that your goal?
Again,you didn't notify your customers about this cleanup and why.
You agreed to this when you purchased your VPS.
Customer acknowledges that any prohibited activity as described in VirMach’s Acceptable Usage Policy may result in immediate cancellation/termination without refund or notice.
If we want to get technical he didn't agree to it and he's also not officially a customer, the original owner is, which is arguably worse for him. Because he has no rights to the service and no agreement with us.
But yes, it's very obvious most people if not all understood the risks when not buying directly. Otherwise they wouldn't put in the minimal amount of effort they did to try to "secure" it.
@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
Emails are sent on suspension. Anything I discuss here is not necessary, it can be ignored. I'm just enforcing the same policies we always have and doing it in the exact same way. I'm not making up anything new.
Yes, maybe explaining too detailed is not good. Just inform that you are suspending and requesting more information from suspicious customers, who violated the ToS. Fighting abusers are always hurt, but it's a need.
@VirMach said: If you want to continue your lies you really need to remember that out of everyone, you're the person I can 100% check since you came here for assistance. What's the point?
Recent Emails
10/20/2022 00:14 - Important - Service Suspended
You are assuming he has e-mail access - maybe it's still in "reseller" hands :-). Maybe his account is added as secondary and mails went only to primary aka "reseller". Maybe he only has SolusVM access and tickets are opened by "reseller" :-)
Those people do a lot of shit backwards and counterproductive...
@qqlikelo said: You know that only the customer is injured. Do you still want to do this? I am the injured customer. The trafficker taught me a lesson with you. Do you want to hear some advice? Let me talk about my thoughts. That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties. And they are prohibited from continuing to modify anything that can be sold, such as modifying mailboxes. It's really painful to suspend the service directly. I paid more, but I was sanctioned by you.
I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here? Your recommendation:
That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties.
We're basically doing this and we're not imposing penalties because it doesn't make sense for 99% of people when the imposed fee is $25. If anyone is interested in paying the fee, then we can dedicate a good amount of time to that case to resolve it. We're not forcing this fee.
What service did you have, and how much did you pay for it, and why?
What I understand is that paying $25 is only to further check the suspension of the service or other circumstances, not to continue my service. I have made it clear that punishment is acceptable. It's not a problem. If you issue a ticket, I can pay it, which will pay for my mistake. Or some other solutions. Simply put, I don't think it will help me to issue a $25 ticket unless I'm sure it can solve the problem. I'm using translation software, so its meaning may not be accurate enough.
@VirMach said: I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here?
I think that he's talking about rather limiting scalpers to not being able to resell services and while that's good thought it's almost impossible to enforce it and anyhow limit resellers upfront.
End users are in some way fu**ed twice here and while I have absolutely zero sympathies toward those who purchased service to abuse it, I feel a bit sorry for those people who purchased it because they don't have credit card or something. Or they don't know it better and saw someone's post about this good deal from a reseller or something...
I don't blame host for doing what you do and I completely understand it, but I can imagine frustrations of some "end users" who may be just too naive, not well-versed and scalpers simply took advantage of that. Lesson learned as someone above said.
@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
Yep.But he didn't.
If you want to continue your lies you really need to remember that out of everyone, you're the person I can 100% check since you came here for assistance. What's the point?
Recent Emails
10/20/2022 00:14 - Important - Service Suspended
Why would we suspend and not send a suspension email? It's technically a possibility but I can see here you received it. What difference does it make for you if you receive an email, we wait a little bit, then we send the suspension one as a second email? All it would do is allow a window of additional abuse and people trying to sell their service to another unsuspecting customer. Is that your goal?
You just suspended my service and then send me an email tell me that your service has been suspended,no more details only one word:Account not in good standing.Why not send me alerts before you take actions?Why not give customer some time to back up data ,transfer service ?
@Franzkafka said: Why not send me alerts before you take actions?Why not give customer some time to back up datas ,transfer service etc?
Why not just not break TOS in first place? ;-)
You were told by 3 different people here why there is no time for backup.
You were told you can REQUEST the server image from VirMach via ticket.
But I guess it can't be done for you as you requested your account be deleted, so all the data is gone.
I guess you are not even reading those messages, you just "I WANT MY STUFF, I DON'T CARE WHAT ARE YOUR RULES, MY RULES MORE IMPORTANT" and this is just waste of time typing this.
@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
Emails are sent on suspension. Anything I discuss here is not necessary, it can be ignored. I'm just enforcing the same policies we always have and doing it in the exact same way. I'm not making up anything new.
Yes, maybe explaining too detailed is not good. Just inform that you are suspending and requesting more information from suspicious customers, who violated the ToS. Fighting abusers are always hurt, but it's a need.
Even if we wanted to, not explaining the situation would only allow more conspiracy theories to spread. Then it would just be a story of "VirMach suspended me for no reason" and when a bunch of people say that, and there's no other information from us here, then it would make it seem as if we're doing it maliciously. People would naturally ask about it, and then it would look like we're trying to cover up an action.
If the guy came here and made the claims he did and I just said nothing, then it would appear as if he's correct.
@VirMach said: If you want to continue your lies you really need to remember that out of everyone, you're the person I can 100% check since you came here for assistance. What's the point?
Recent Emails
10/20/2022 00:14 - Important - Service Suspended
You are assuming he has e-mail access - maybe it's still in "reseller" hands :-). Maybe his account is added as secondary and mails went only to primary aka "reseller". Maybe he only has SolusVM access and tickets are opened by "reseller" :-)
Those people do a lot of shit backwards and counterproductive...
I'm assuming he just meant that he should have received further notice before the suspension so he could begin trying to manipulate us into not suspending it. I just can't think of any reasoning where it would somehow benefit him outside of allowing another prohibited act.
@qqlikelo said: You know that only the customer is injured. Do you still want to do this? I am the injured customer. The trafficker taught me a lesson with you. Do you want to hear some advice? Let me talk about my thoughts. That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties. And they are prohibited from continuing to modify anything that can be sold, such as modifying mailboxes. It's really painful to suspend the service directly. I paid more, but I was sanctioned by you.
I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here? Your recommendation:
That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties.
We're basically doing this and we're not imposing penalties because it doesn't make sense for 99% of people when the imposed fee is $25. If anyone is interested in paying the fee, then we can dedicate a good amount of time to that case to resolve it. We're not forcing this fee.
What service did you have, and how much did you pay for it, and why?
What I understand is that paying $25 is only to further check the suspension of the service or other circumstances, not to continue my service. I have made it clear that punishment is acceptable. It's not a problem. If you issue a ticket, I can pay it, which will pay for my mistake. Or some other solutions. Simply put, I don't think it will help me to issue a $25 ticket unless I'm sure it can solve the problem. I'm using translation software, so its meaning may not be accurate enough.
The fee is not a bribe.
It's there to cover the cost of dealing with straightening out the situation. In these cases, it would mean we can spend time to really dig into your specific scenario, and if you are truthful and able to provide all the requested information or explanations, and we can ensure that you secured some unofficial rights to the account at the very least, then we can clean everything up and unflag you and unsuspend it. Of course this doesn't mean there isn't a risk of it being rejected but we will be as reasonable as possible when evaluating the case.
I don't know what else to say other than I don't understand how it would help you out or help us out if you paid the fee. It ends up taking a lot of support time, and has the possibility of another negative outcome for you if you then proceed to use it as an opportunity to not provide any information, or if we look at it and see that there are other problems, and I assume it is for a service that is less cost than the fee.
The only thing I can promise is that we obviously want to keep people as customers but a lot of work is required to get to that state when it involves possible multiple accounts switched. In fact we've already done a lot of work and also allowed people to appeal initially with no fee, when by default we're supposed to automatically collect the fee.
We will be genuine in our attempts to rectify the matter, and our intention is not to just bill the $25. If we wanted to do that, we could have just first sent the bill to everyone for the initial work we had to complete.
Frustrated end users who purchase from shady resellers will benefit more in the long run from this.
I can see no downside to the way Virmach is handling this.
@VirMach said: I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here?
I think that he's talking about rather limiting scalpers to not being able to resell services and while that's good thought it's almost impossible to enforce it and anyhow limit resellers upfront.
End users are in some way fu**ed twice here and while I have absolutely zero sympathies toward those who purchased service to abuse it, I feel a bit sorry for those people who purchased it because they don't have credit card or something. Or they don't know it better and saw someone's post about this good deal from a reseller or something...
I don't blame host for doing what you do and I completely understand it, but I can imagine frustrations of some "end users" who may be just too naive, not well-versed and scalpers simply took advantage of that. Lesson learned as someone above said.
I understand what you're saying and we already tried multiple times to work out a better solution. It's just a bad situation that doesn't have a better solution that exists. I'm still open to hearing everyone out and we can proceed differently if there's a good idea that could actually work, but we've spent a lot of time evaluating all the options and they all have very big potential problems or loopholes that will only result in additional negative behavior.
(edit) The only other option is not feasible in terms of the amount of work required to achieve it, and that would be individually reaching out to everyone and speaking with them regarding the matter with many back and forth replies. And we can't go back in time and assume this would happen and raise the service cost to hire additional dedicated "scalper" support reps.
(edit) Again, if I had a magic button to just immediately only affect the accounts that are still in the hands of scalpers not yet sold, there would be no reason to bother others. We always try to be more fair and compassionate than required. Even in this case, we're still taking it slow and thoroughly checking everything. Otherwise I already have 1,000 other people and could just auto suspend them within an hour. Instead I'm going through one by one and only doing it to a small group directly associated with the worst scalpers who also did other things on top of the account resales.
(edit) There's still a possibility of doing it differently for the others, this is just something I felt needed to be addressed sooner than later for this particular group and I decided it is best to proceed exactly how we would in other cases per our ToS while reducing the harshness where plausible.
"Hey officer, I know I'm not allowed to steal. But before you take me to jail, can you give me some time to use/hide the items I just stole??" - Virmach abusers
@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
Emails are sent on suspension. Anything I discuss here is not necessary, it can be ignored. I'm just enforcing the same policies we always have and doing it in the exact same way. I'm not making up anything new.
Yes, maybe explaining too detailed is not good. Just inform that you are suspending and requesting more information from suspicious customers, who violated the ToS. Fighting abusers are always hurt, but it's a need.
Even if we wanted to, not explaining the situation would only allow more conspiracy theories to spread. Then it would just be a story of "VirMach suspended me for no reason" and when a bunch of people say that, and there's no other information from us here, then it would make it seem as if we're doing it maliciously. People would naturally ask about it, and then it would look like we're trying to cover up an action.
If the guy came here and made the claims he did and I just said nothing, then it would appear as if he's correct.
@VirMach said: If you want to continue your lies you really need to remember that out of everyone, you're the person I can 100% check since you came here for assistance. What's the point?
Recent Emails
10/20/2022 00:14 - Important - Service Suspended
You are assuming he has e-mail access - maybe it's still in "reseller" hands :-). Maybe his account is added as secondary and mails went only to primary aka "reseller". Maybe he only has SolusVM access and tickets are opened by "reseller" :-)
Those people do a lot of shit backwards and counterproductive...
I'm assuming he just meant that he should have received further notice before the suspension so he could begin trying to manipulate us into not suspending it. I just can't think of any reasoning where it would somehow benefit him outside of allowing another prohibited act.
@qqlikelo said: You know that only the customer is injured. Do you still want to do this? I am the injured customer. The trafficker taught me a lesson with you. Do you want to hear some advice? Let me talk about my thoughts. That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties. And they are prohibited from continuing to modify anything that can be sold, such as modifying mailboxes. It's really painful to suspend the service directly. I paid more, but I was sanctioned by you.
I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here? Your recommendation:
That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties.
We're basically doing this and we're not imposing penalties because it doesn't make sense for 99% of people when the imposed fee is $25. If anyone is interested in paying the fee, then we can dedicate a good amount of time to that case to resolve it. We're not forcing this fee.
What service did you have, and how much did you pay for it, and why?
What I understand is that paying $25 is only to further check the suspension of the service or other circumstances, not to continue my service. I have made it clear that punishment is acceptable. It's not a problem. If you issue a ticket, I can pay it, which will pay for my mistake. Or some other solutions. Simply put, I don't think it will help me to issue a $25 ticket unless I'm sure it can solve the problem. I'm using translation software, so its meaning may not be accurate enough.
The fee is not a bribe.
It's there to cover the cost of dealing with straightening out the situation. In these cases, it would mean we can spend time to really dig into your specific scenario, and if you are truthful and able to provide all the requested information or explanations, and we can ensure that you secured some unofficial rights to the account at the very least, then we can clean everything up and unflag you and unsuspend it. Of course this doesn't mean there isn't a risk of it being rejected but we will be as reasonable as possible when evaluating the case.
I don't know what else to say other than I don't understand how it would help you out or help us out if you paid the fee. It ends up taking a lot of support time, and has the possibility of another negative outcome for you if you then proceed to use it as an opportunity to not provide any information, or if we look at it and see that there are other problems, and I assume it is for a service that is less cost than the fee.
The only thing I can promise is that we obviously want to keep people as customers but a lot of work is required to get to that state when it involves possible multiple accounts switched. In fact we've already done a lot of work and also allowed people to appeal initially with no fee, when by default we're supposed to automatically collect the fee.
We will be genuine in our attempts to rectify the matter, and our intention is not to just bill the $25. If we wanted to do that, we could have just first sent the bill to everyone for the initial work we had to complete.
No one said it was a bribe! The problem is whether your disabled account has the same problem or each account has a different problem. And which problems can be solved and which problems cannot be solved. For example, my problem, I bought my service (VPS) from someone else a few days ago, and today, he was stopped. I have sent a ticket to try to communicate or find out which of my problems and errors, and then whether there is any possibility to correct this error. Blindly send a $25 ticket if my problem is not solved at that time. So, I lost not only my server, but also my $25? Do you think I want to be hurt a second time? If you drive fast, the judge may issue a ticket for you. You think it's reasonable for me, because you have received the punishment and know what happened. All that is left is whether you are willing to pay your ticket or not.
@Jab said: Why not just not break TOS in first place? ;-)
Technically looking, scalpers are the one's who broke TOS not end users. But it doesn't mean that end users aren't problem. They are because they didn't even accept TOS in first place and host just can't afford to have that - clients who didn't agree with TOS
@Jab said:
^ I have no idea what @qqlikelo just wrote
Barier language strikes again.
He said something like that he's willing to pay $25 for resolving issue and staying as client, but in this case $25 payment for host to look into this matter don't guarantee that he will be able to keep server, so he may lose additional money and stay with nothing.
I am currently traveling in mostly remote areas until sometime in April 2024. Consequently DM's sent to me will go unanswered during this time.
For staff assistance or support issues please use the helpdesk ticket system at https://support.lowendspirit.com/index.php?a=add
@qqlikelo said: For example, my problem, I bought my service (VPS) from someone else a few days ago, and today, he was stopped. I have sent a ticket to try to communicate or find out which of my problems and errors, and then whether there is any possibility to correct this error.
Problem here is that you purchased service from "someone else" and you're in business relationship with this "someone else" not with host. You didn't agree with Terms of Services (TOS) from hosting company and as such you're not a legit client.
Many those "non legit clients" are the most problematic, abusive clients. Because they think they can do anything without consequences.
@VirMach said: I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here?
I think that he's talking about rather limiting scalpers to not being able to resell services and while that's good thought it's almost impossible to enforce it and anyhow limit resellers upfront.
End users are in some way fu**ed twice here and while I have absolutely zero sympathies toward those who purchased service to abuse it, I feel a bit sorry for those people who purchased it because they don't have credit card or something. Or they don't know it better and saw someone's post about this good deal from a reseller or something...
I don't blame host for doing what you do and I completely understand it, but I can imagine frustrations of some "end users" who may be just too naive, not well-versed and scalpers simply took advantage of that. Lesson learned as someone above said.
I understand what you're saying and we already tried multiple times to work out a better solution. It's just a bad situation that doesn't have a better solution that exists. I'm still open to hearing everyone out and we can proceed differently if there's a good idea that could actually work, but we've spent a lot of time evaluating all the options and they all have very big potential problems or loopholes that will only result in additional negative behavior.
(edit) The only other option is not feasible in terms of the amount of work required to achieve it, and that would be individually reaching out to everyone and speaking with them regarding the matter with many back and forth replies. And we can't go back in time and assume this would happen and raise the service cost to hire additional dedicated "scalper" support reps.
(edit) Again, if I had a magic button to just immediately only affect the accounts that are still in the hands of scalpers not yet sold, there would be no reason to bother others. We always try to be more fair and compassionate than required. Even in this case, we're still taking it slow and thoroughly checking everything. Otherwise I already have 1,000 other people and could just auto suspend them within an hour. Instead I'm going through one by one and only doing it to a small group directly associated with the worst scalpers who also did other things on top of the account resales.
(edit) There's still a possibility of doing it differently for the others, this is just something I felt needed to be addressed sooner than later for this particular group and I decided it is best to proceed exactly how we would in other cases per our ToS while reducing the harshness where plausible.
@VirMach said: I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here?
I think that he's talking about rather limiting scalpers to not being able to resell services and while that's good thought it's almost impossible to enforce it and anyhow limit resellers upfront.
End users are in some way fu**ed twice here and while I have absolutely zero sympathies toward those who purchased service to abuse it, I feel a bit sorry for those people who purchased it because they don't have credit card or something. Or they don't know it better and saw someone's post about this good deal from a reseller or something...
I don't blame host for doing what you do and I completely understand it, but I can imagine frustrations of some "end users" who may be just too naive, not well-versed and scalpers simply took advantage of that. Lesson learned as someone above said.
I understand what you're saying and we already tried multiple times to work out a better solution. It's just a bad situation that doesn't have a better solution that exists. I'm still open to hearing everyone out and we can proceed differently if there's a good idea that could actually work, but we've spent a lot of time evaluating all the options and they all have very big potential problems or loopholes that will only result in additional negative behavior.
(edit) The only other option is not feasible in terms of the amount of work required to achieve it, and that would be individually reaching out to everyone and speaking with them regarding the matter with many back and forth replies. And we can't go back in time and assume this would happen and raise the service cost to hire additional dedicated "scalper" support reps.
(edit) Again, if I had a magic button to just immediately only affect the accounts that are still in the hands of scalpers not yet sold, there would be no reason to bother others. We always try to be more fair and compassionate than required. Even in this case, we're still taking it slow and thoroughly checking everything. Otherwise I already have 1,000 other people and could just auto suspend them within an hour. Instead I'm going through one by one and only doing it to a small group directly associated with the worst scalpers who also did other things on top of the account resales.
(edit) There's still a possibility of doing it differently for the others, this is just something I felt needed to be addressed sooner than later for this particular group and I decided it is best to proceed exactly how we would in other cases per our ToS while reducing the harshness where plausible.
As soon as you are ready to block the service, you should be ready to solve it. Instead of letting the customer have a meaningless battle with you. For example, you banned a group of A-type customers who violated TOS and were suspended. If you want to resume the service, what customers need to do. There should be perfect solutions to any problem. Instead of asking users to chat with you. As a customer, I don't know exactly what you want to do, and you don't even reply to the appeal ticket. If you want to kill these people, then you should set up at least one automatic reply: "Hey! Your server violated XXX, and we won't restore it! Please don't contact us about this issue. We won't deal with it!" This line is straightforward enough, and there is no doubt.
@qqlikelo said: No one said it was a bribe! The problem is whether your disabled account has the same problem or each account has a different problem. And which problems can be solved and which problems cannot be solved. For example, my problem, I bought my service (VPS) from someone else a few days ago, and today, he was stopped. I have sent a ticket to try to communicate or find out which of my problems and errors, and then whether there is any possibility to correct this error. Blindly send a $25 ticket if my problem is not solved at that time. So, I lost not only my server, but also my $25? Do you think I want to be hurt a second time? If you drive fast, the judge may issue a ticket for you. You think it's reasonable for me, because you have received the punishment and know what happened. All that is left is whether you are willing to pay your ticket or not.
I didn't say anyone said it's a bribe, just that we need to keep that in mind. If I just promise you here that you give $25 and I unsuspend it without evaluating it, then there's no actual fair process and effectively us doing it for profit. That's not our intention. It wouldn't actually solve anything since nothing would be investigated, and if it's actually investigated then that means I can't just guarantee an unsuspension before... even investigating it. If we just allowed everyone to pay $25 and immediately unsuspended, a second issue is that obviously for specific deals people would be encouraged to do it and we don't want to just randomly give it back to the same malicious people so they can profit from it again by reselling and causing additional problems, repeating the cycle.
I understand that you do not want to pay $25 and then get hurt a second time.
So let me do a quick response based on the information you provided. If you bought this from someone else a few days ago, for your situation, what could be done if you have evidence of that is, and I'm going to explain this in the way the process would work, and then I'll explain it more simply afterward:
We change everything back to the original owner after investigating and confirming your provided details, and he gets the account closed for breaking our terms of service. You effectively end up paying $25 for his account as a billing contact for the appeal. The appeal technically fails, but you have at this point proven to us that you were not entirely malicious in your actions. Then, if you require any of your data, you can request it. Finally, you register for your own account using all your real information. If you have privacy concerns, you can change it later in our system for most the details I believe. You utilize your own internet to make the purchase, to ensure it's no longer associated with the previous accounts. And we'll allow you to purchase the service on your own account as a courtesy to you, and add in the duration equal to the duration left over on the original service as a courtesy to you.
What it really means: yes, I could see your appeal being successful based on the information you provided, assuming you are able to prove it and are willing to cooperate. Depending on the specifics, this could mean that you also would have to provide some information to us that you may be uncomfortable providing so you should understand that we may have to ask for identification, and again, proof of the purchase, then we can assume you in that case are not acting maliciously and trust you enough to make the mentioned changes and give you a clean account that's actually yours.
Now I want to stress that if you are leaving out anything, I obviously did not evaluate that. If you recently clearly are associated with other accounts, as in you yourself also have multiple accounts, that could pose additional problems.
@qqlikelo said: If you want to resume the service, what customers need to do. There should be perfect solutions to any problem.
I expect the problem is easy enough to solve without VirMach's involvement. Create an account in your name, with your account details and purchase a service directly from VirMach's website. Then afterwards live within the TOS and you should not have to worry about being suspended in the future.
I am currently traveling in mostly remote areas until sometime in April 2024. Consequently DM's sent to me will go unanswered during this time.
For staff assistance or support issues please use the helpdesk ticket system at https://support.lowendspirit.com/index.php?a=add
@qqlikelo said: If you drive fast, the judge may issue a ticket for you. You think it's reasonable for me, because you have received the punishment and know what happened. All that is left is whether you are willing to pay your ticket or not.
This is how it's supposed to work. As in, a violation means $25 fee, whether or not you appeal it, there's a $25 fee associated with having to spend time to locate and deal with your abuse. This does also include the possibility of appealing because in this scenario you have already paid so it'd be unfair to charge additional fees to continue the investigation, taking into account the additional evidence provided. So using your ticket analogy, you could see this as a retrial.
But of course we never charged it in this case, which may potentially make it confusing but ultimately it helps people out since we don't automatically force the fee as we could normally.
Am I just too unknowing how things work over there or how did the word of "bought" accounts getting terminated not spread to whatever platform all that mess if coming from yet?
I mean, apparently quite some people are able to find this thread.
@qqlikelo said: If you want to resume the service, what customers need to do. There should be perfect solutions to any problem.
I expect the problem is easy enough to solve without VirMach's involvement. Create an account in your name, with your account details and purchase a service directly from VirMach's website. Then afterwards live within the TOS and you should not have to worry about being suspended in the future.
Basically my response but I also offered to honor the same deal and provide some courtesy service extension. This is the only proper way to do it.
@benz said:
Am I just too unknowing how things work over there or how did the word of "bought" accounts getting terminated not spread to whatever platform all that mess if coming from yet?
They definitely already knew. At least in that message board. I don't know about other potential circumstances, perhaps these people also sold outside of that community as well, maybe to some random stranger on the street. You can also buy concert tickets like that and you're trusting the person selling it to you so if you get scammed, and the venue doesn't honor your ticket you can't then blame it on the venue.
Comments
Yep.But he didn't.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
I don't understand, what do you believe is being done here? Your recommendation:
We're basically doing this and we're not imposing penalties because it doesn't make sense for 99% of people when the imposed fee is $25. If anyone is interested in paying the fee, then we can dedicate a good amount of time to that case to resolve it. We're not forcing this fee.
What service did you have, and how much did you pay for it, and why?
You agreed to this when you purchased your VPS.
If you want to continue your lies you really need to remember that out of everyone, you're the person I can 100% check since you came here for assistance. What's the point?
Why would we suspend and not send a suspension email? It's technically a possibility but I can see here you received it. What difference does it make for you if you receive an email, we wait a little bit, then we send the suspension one as a second email? All it would do is allow a window of additional abuse and people trying to sell their service to another unsuspecting customer. Is that your goal?
If we want to get technical he didn't agree to it and he's also not officially a customer, the original owner is, which is arguably worse for him. Because he has no rights to the service and no agreement with us.
But yes, it's very obvious most people if not all understood the risks when not buying directly. Otherwise they wouldn't put in the minimal amount of effort they did to try to "secure" it.
Yes, maybe explaining too detailed is not good. Just inform that you are suspending and requesting more information from suspicious customers, who violated the ToS. Fighting abusers are always hurt, but it's a need.
You are assuming he has e-mail access - maybe it's still in "reseller" hands :-). Maybe his account is added as secondary and mails went only to primary aka "reseller". Maybe he only has SolusVM access and tickets are opened by "reseller" :-)
Those people do a lot of shit backwards and counterproductive...
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
https://lowendspirit.com/uploads/editor/gi/ippw0lcmqowk.png
What I understand is that paying $25 is only to further check the suspension of the service or other circumstances, not to continue my service. I have made it clear that punishment is acceptable. It's not a problem. If you issue a ticket, I can pay it, which will pay for my mistake. Or some other solutions. Simply put, I don't think it will help me to issue a $25 ticket unless I'm sure it can solve the problem. I'm using translation software, so its meaning may not be accurate enough.
I think that he's talking about rather limiting scalpers to not being able to resell services and while that's good thought it's almost impossible to enforce it and anyhow limit resellers upfront.
End users are in some way fu**ed twice here and while I have absolutely zero sympathies toward those who purchased service to abuse it, I feel a bit sorry for those people who purchased it because they don't have credit card or something. Or they don't know it better and saw someone's post about this good deal from a reseller or something...
I don't blame host for doing what you do and I completely understand it, but I can imagine frustrations of some "end users" who may be just too naive, not well-versed and scalpers simply took advantage of that. Lesson learned as someone above said.
You just suspended my service and then send me an email tell me that your service has been suspended,no more details only one word:Account not in good standing.Why not send me alerts before you take actions?Why not give customer some time to back up data ,transfer service ?
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
Why not just not break TOS in first place? ;-)
You were told by 3 different people here why there is no time for backup.
You were told you can REQUEST the server image from VirMach via ticket.
But I guess it can't be done for you as you requested your account be deleted, so all the data is gone.
I guess you are not even reading those messages, you just "I WANT MY STUFF, I DON'T CARE WHAT ARE YOUR RULES, MY RULES MORE IMPORTANT" and this is just waste of time typing this.
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
https://lowendspirit.com/uploads/editor/gi/ippw0lcmqowk.png
Even if we wanted to, not explaining the situation would only allow more conspiracy theories to spread. Then it would just be a story of "VirMach suspended me for no reason" and when a bunch of people say that, and there's no other information from us here, then it would make it seem as if we're doing it maliciously. People would naturally ask about it, and then it would look like we're trying to cover up an action.
If the guy came here and made the claims he did and I just said nothing, then it would appear as if he's correct.
I'm assuming he just meant that he should have received further notice before the suspension so he could begin trying to manipulate us into not suspending it. I just can't think of any reasoning where it would somehow benefit him outside of allowing another prohibited act.
The fee is not a bribe.
It's there to cover the cost of dealing with straightening out the situation. In these cases, it would mean we can spend time to really dig into your specific scenario, and if you are truthful and able to provide all the requested information or explanations, and we can ensure that you secured some unofficial rights to the account at the very least, then we can clean everything up and unflag you and unsuspend it. Of course this doesn't mean there isn't a risk of it being rejected but we will be as reasonable as possible when evaluating the case.
I don't know what else to say other than I don't understand how it would help you out or help us out if you paid the fee. It ends up taking a lot of support time, and has the possibility of another negative outcome for you if you then proceed to use it as an opportunity to not provide any information, or if we look at it and see that there are other problems, and I assume it is for a service that is less cost than the fee.
The only thing I can promise is that we obviously want to keep people as customers but a lot of work is required to get to that state when it involves possible multiple accounts switched. In fact we've already done a lot of work and also allowed people to appeal initially with no fee, when by default we're supposed to automatically collect the fee.
We will be genuine in our attempts to rectify the matter, and our intention is not to just bill the $25. If we wanted to do that, we could have just first sent the bill to everyone for the initial work we had to complete.
Frustrated end users who purchase from shady resellers will benefit more in the long run from this.
I can see no downside to the way Virmach is handling this.
I understand what you're saying and we already tried multiple times to work out a better solution. It's just a bad situation that doesn't have a better solution that exists. I'm still open to hearing everyone out and we can proceed differently if there's a good idea that could actually work, but we've spent a lot of time evaluating all the options and they all have very big potential problems or loopholes that will only result in additional negative behavior.
(edit) The only other option is not feasible in terms of the amount of work required to achieve it, and that would be individually reaching out to everyone and speaking with them regarding the matter with many back and forth replies. And we can't go back in time and assume this would happen and raise the service cost to hire additional dedicated "scalper" support reps.
(edit) Again, if I had a magic button to just immediately only affect the accounts that are still in the hands of scalpers not yet sold, there would be no reason to bother others. We always try to be more fair and compassionate than required. Even in this case, we're still taking it slow and thoroughly checking everything. Otherwise I already have 1,000 other people and could just auto suspend them within an hour. Instead I'm going through one by one and only doing it to a small group directly associated with the worst scalpers who also did other things on top of the account resales.
(edit) There's still a possibility of doing it differently for the others, this is just something I felt needed to be addressed sooner than later for this particular group and I decided it is best to proceed exactly how we would in other cases per our ToS while reducing the harshness where plausible.
"Hey officer, I know I'm not allowed to steal. But before you take me to jail, can you give me some time to use/hide the items I just stole??" - Virmach abusers
No one said it was a bribe! The problem is whether your disabled account has the same problem or each account has a different problem. And which problems can be solved and which problems cannot be solved. For example, my problem, I bought my service (VPS) from someone else a few days ago, and today, he was stopped. I have sent a ticket to try to communicate or find out which of my problems and errors, and then whether there is any possibility to correct this error. Blindly send a $25 ticket if my problem is not solved at that time. So, I lost not only my server, but also my $25? Do you think I want to be hurt a second time? If you drive fast, the judge may issue a ticket for you. You think it's reasonable for me, because you have received the punishment and know what happened. All that is left is whether you are willing to pay your ticket or not.
Technically looking, scalpers are the one's who broke TOS not end users. But it doesn't mean that end users aren't problem. They are because they didn't even accept TOS in first place and host just can't afford to have that - clients who didn't agree with TOS
^ I have no idea what @qqlikelo just wrote
Barier language strikes again.
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
https://lowendspirit.com/uploads/editor/gi/ippw0lcmqowk.png
He said something like that he's willing to pay $25 for resolving issue and staying as client, but in this case $25 payment for host to look into this matter don't guarantee that he will be able to keep server, so he may lose additional money and stay with nothing.
I should be getting some work done, but instead I am eating pop corn and watching the drama.
I am currently traveling in mostly remote areas until sometime in April 2024. Consequently DM's sent to me will go unanswered during this time.
For staff assistance or support issues please use the helpdesk ticket system at https://support.lowendspirit.com/index.php?a=add
Problem here is that you purchased service from "someone else" and you're in business relationship with this "someone else" not with host. You didn't agree with Terms of Services (TOS) from hosting company and as such you're not a legit client.
Many those "non legit clients" are the most problematic, abusive clients. Because they think they can do anything without consequences.
As soon as you are ready to block the service, you should be ready to solve it. Instead of letting the customer have a meaningless battle with you. For example, you banned a group of A-type customers who violated TOS and were suspended. If you want to resume the service, what customers need to do. There should be perfect solutions to any problem. Instead of asking users to chat with you. As a customer, I don't know exactly what you want to do, and you don't even reply to the appeal ticket. If you want to kill these people, then you should set up at least one automatic reply: "Hey! Your server violated XXX, and we won't restore it! Please don't contact us about this issue. We won't deal with it!" This line is straightforward enough, and there is no doubt.
Just imagine VirMach is The Castle you described your book. Or is your username also fake?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Castle_(novel)
I didn't say anyone said it's a bribe, just that we need to keep that in mind. If I just promise you here that you give $25 and I unsuspend it without evaluating it, then there's no actual fair process and effectively us doing it for profit. That's not our intention. It wouldn't actually solve anything since nothing would be investigated, and if it's actually investigated then that means I can't just guarantee an unsuspension before... even investigating it. If we just allowed everyone to pay $25 and immediately unsuspended, a second issue is that obviously for specific deals people would be encouraged to do it and we don't want to just randomly give it back to the same malicious people so they can profit from it again by reselling and causing additional problems, repeating the cycle.
I understand that you do not want to pay $25 and then get hurt a second time.
So let me do a quick response based on the information you provided. If you bought this from someone else a few days ago, for your situation, what could be done if you have evidence of that is, and I'm going to explain this in the way the process would work, and then I'll explain it more simply afterward:
We change everything back to the original owner after investigating and confirming your provided details, and he gets the account closed for breaking our terms of service. You effectively end up paying $25 for his account as a billing contact for the appeal. The appeal technically fails, but you have at this point proven to us that you were not entirely malicious in your actions. Then, if you require any of your data, you can request it. Finally, you register for your own account using all your real information. If you have privacy concerns, you can change it later in our system for most the details I believe. You utilize your own internet to make the purchase, to ensure it's no longer associated with the previous accounts. And we'll allow you to purchase the service on your own account as a courtesy to you, and add in the duration equal to the duration left over on the original service as a courtesy to you.
What it really means: yes, I could see your appeal being successful based on the information you provided, assuming you are able to prove it and are willing to cooperate. Depending on the specifics, this could mean that you also would have to provide some information to us that you may be uncomfortable providing so you should understand that we may have to ask for identification, and again, proof of the purchase, then we can assume you in that case are not acting maliciously and trust you enough to make the mentioned changes and give you a clean account that's actually yours.
Now I want to stress that if you are leaving out anything, I obviously did not evaluate that. If you recently clearly are associated with other accounts, as in you yourself also have multiple accounts, that could pose additional problems.
I expect the problem is easy enough to solve without VirMach's involvement. Create an account in your name, with your account details and purchase a service directly from VirMach's website. Then afterwards live within the TOS and you should not have to worry about being suspended in the future.
I am currently traveling in mostly remote areas until sometime in April 2024. Consequently DM's sent to me will go unanswered during this time.
For staff assistance or support issues please use the helpdesk ticket system at https://support.lowendspirit.com/index.php?a=add
This is how it's supposed to work. As in, a violation means $25 fee, whether or not you appeal it, there's a $25 fee associated with having to spend time to locate and deal with your abuse. This does also include the possibility of appealing because in this scenario you have already paid so it'd be unfair to charge additional fees to continue the investigation, taking into account the additional evidence provided. So using your ticket analogy, you could see this as a retrial.
But of course we never charged it in this case, which may potentially make it confusing but ultimately it helps people out since we don't automatically force the fee as we could normally.
Am I just too unknowing how things work over there or how did the word of "bought" accounts getting terminated not spread to whatever platform all that mess if coming from yet?
I mean, apparently quite some people are able to find this thread.
Basically my response but I also offered to honor the same deal and provide some courtesy service extension. This is the only proper way to do it.
Unfortunately He can't speak English at all.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
They definitely already knew. At least in that message board. I don't know about other potential circumstances, perhaps these people also sold outside of that community as well, maybe to some random stranger on the street. You can also buy concert tickets like that and you're trusting the person selling it to you so if you get scammed, and the venue doesn't honor your ticket you can't then blame it on the venue.