The Great Firewall thread

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This discussion was created from comments split from: Free MetalVPS Intel i9-13900 Traditional Shell Account! Make Your Own VPSes!.
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  • edited May 3

    @NodeSeek用户123 said:
    @dinopotato
    Sure,I pinged five times, and overall:

    Pinging fsn.metalvps.com [88.198.14.252] with 32 bytes of data:
    Request timed out.
    Reply from 88.198.14.252: bytes=32 time=267ms TTL=51
    Reply from 88.198.14.252: bytes=32 time=287ms TTL=51
    Reply from 88.198.14.252: bytes=32 time=265ms TTL=51
    
    Ping statistics for 88.198.14.252:
        Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 3, Lost = 1 (25% loss),
    Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
        Minimum = 265ms, Maximum = 287ms, Average = 273ms
    

    Actually, I have to turn on VPN to use ping. If I don't turn on VPN, it will be like this:

    Pinging fsn.metalvps.com [88.198.14.252] with 32 bytes of data: 
    Request timed out. 
    Reply from 88.198.14.252: bytes=32 time=267ms TTL=51 
    Request timed out. 
    Request timed out.
    
    Ping statistics for 88.198.14.252: Packets: 
    Sent = 4, Received = 1, Lost = 3 (75% loss),
     Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds: 
    Minimum = 267ms, Maximum = 267ms, Average = 267ms
    

    Maybe the latency is okay compared to yours, but the packet loss is too high.(x_x)

    About the VPNs can i ask something?
    i've been used China's VMs and i used a tool called V2rayN to bypass The Great Wall, it's super slow and high laterncy network, so i wonder
    Are you using V2rayN,if Yes where you got the file from because you in china while you can't connect to outside the internet
    What VPN you are using if you don't use V2rayN
    Google is blocked in China, is OpenAI(ChatGPT) blocked too
    is Bypass the firewall illegal?

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  • Not_OlesNot_Oles Hosting ProviderContent Writer

    @dinopotato said: About the VPNs can i ask something?

    i've been used China's VMs and i used a tool called V2rayN to bypass The Great Wall, it's super slow and high laterncy network, so i wonder
    Are you using V2rayN,if Yes where you got the file from because you in china while you can't connect to outside the internet
    What VPN you are using if you don't use V2rayN
    Google is blocked in China, is OpenAI(ChatGPT) blocked too
    is Bypass the firewall illegal?

    Thanks for asking these questions, @dinopotato! I also wonder about these questions. I wonder about the effectiveness of the firewall because it seems that many, many people bypass it. Please let me add my additional question, "Is the Great Firewall effective?"

    @FrankZ If you are not too busy, maybe @dinopotato's question and my reply with an additional question plus additional replies should be split into a new Great Firewall thread? Thanks either way! :)

  • Here is my understanding on the situation. I have never lived for an extended period in China so take it with some salt.

    Bypassing the GFW is illegal without a permit. A permit is only given to large international firms (or people with special connections) with a hefty fee. They usually get whitelisted in the edge router and can use the Internet like everybody else.

    That leaves the average Xiaoming.

    Ever since the GFW is setup, there has been a technological cat and mouse game between the GFW and the average Xiaoming.

    Eventually the government gave up since they are not successful in reverse engineering modern protocols like shadowsocks, v2ray, and wireguard. They now use organizational tactics like fining people using "accelerators" and jailing people who hosts websites teaching others how to bypass the GFW. The latest tactic though, is peer pressuring everyone to install an anti-phishing app which not only flags potentially phishing apps but also apps related to cryptocurrency, VPN and other apps conducting activities illegal in China.

    But still, people who desire to access the "outer" Internet find ways to do so.

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  • is Bypass the firewall illegal?

    Foreigners don't have to worry about this.

  • @dinopotato said:
    is Bypass the firewall illegal?

    Bypassing ANY country firewall is illegal and depending on the laws, you may face a fine or jail time.

    Does that mean you should stop? Yes, you should not break the law of the country you are residing in. If you do not like the law, gather money and move to a different country. That's the only legal way.

  • @allnetstore said:

    is Bypass the firewall illegal?

    Foreigners don't have to worry about this.

    As a foreigner, if you go to china, you do have to worry about it though...

  • rootroot OG
    edited May 4

    It is true. When one goes to a country, one must respect that law and culture. The Great Firewall is created by the legislation of China, it is part of China, and it must be respected by the citizens and visitors of China. If one bypasses it, then this is a breach of law.

    Even though a person coming from a liberal country with democracy and with freedom of speech, may not care about The Great Firewall, the law must be respected.

    Even though a person living in China wants the freedom of liberal democracy, the law must be obeyed. As always in history when populations were strangled, the people have the right to unite, rise up, and start a civil war or revolution which will change the regime into something else, with new laws and new leaders (which might not become greedy and repeat history again and again).

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  • somiksomik OG
    edited May 4

    @root said:
    As always in history when populations were strangled, the people have the right to unite, rise up, and start a civil war or revolution which will change the regime into something else, with new laws and new leaders

    Ya, no, that's not happening.

    In Singapore, it is illegal to even hold a protest or demonstration.

    As for US, the last time they rose up and tried starting a civil war was when Trump lost the votes and his supporters attacked the white house...

    In China, lets just say you may disappear if you try any of that...

  • rootroot OG
    edited May 4

    @somik said:

    @root said:
    As always in history when populations were strangled, the people have the right to unite, rise up, and start a civil war or revolution which will change the regime into something else, with new laws and new leaders

    Ya, no, that's not happening.

    In Singapore, it is illegal to even hold a protest or demonstration.

    As for US, the last time they rose up and tried starting a civil war was when Trump lost the votes and his supporters attacked the white house...

    In China, lets just say you may disappear if you try any of that...

    You are right. But I honestly wish to avoid being pessimistic. If we combine what you say with electricity going extremely expensive, with politics of manipulation through money, and with investments in artificial intelligence, then we are all doomed to become slaves of elite families and corporations.

    Even though nowadays populations worldwide seem to be treated like sheep and cattle to be milked and used, I merely wish to keep a glimpse of hope that populations can still overthrow regimes as it was in our human history.

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  • @root said:
    then we are all doomed to become slaves of elite families and corporations.

    Erm... we already are. I mean you are living in a country (any) ruled by a group of people who needs money to run the country and keep order. The money comes from tax, which is only generated when money transfers hands. The largest tax payers are the big corporations (not their CEO or owners, but the business itself). Large business generates money that runs your country. They have huge sway over what goes on in the country. Since you are following the rules of the country, you are already following laws that benefit those money makers.

    @root said:
    Even though nowadays populations worldwide seem to be treated like sheep and cattle to be milked and used, I merely wish to keep a glimpse of hope that populations can still overthrow regimes as it was in our human history.

    Not anymore. Previously they lacked information and the means to monitor people's behavior. Technology has come up to where people willingly share their personal details on social media for "popularity" and thereby giving access to all sorts of companies insights into what they are up to. If you even start planning a civil war, well, lets just way a aluminum foil hat will not help.

    If you want to live peacefully, just follow the rules. The are carefully maintained to not be harsh enough to cause general unrest. As long as only minority group are unhappy, it does not matter.

    If the general populaces starts to get unhappy, government will hold events and raise base salary to combat the unrest. So it is a carefully maintained balance that will be maintained a long time to come.

  • can we move on to technical discussion please? these political discussion yadda yadda can have their own offtopic thread

    Fuck this 24/7 internet spew of trivia and celebrity bullshit.

  • I believe Chinese government has found a way to detect Shadowsocks.
    I also heard from my friend that if an IP has a lot of traffic or long lasting connections, then this IP will be blocked by the firewall.

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  • @dwight said:
    I believe Chinese government has found a way to detect Shadowsocks.
    I also heard from my friend that if an IP has a lot of traffic or long lasting connections, then this IP will be blocked by the firewall.

    They can detect but they cannot decrypt and do deep packet inspection like they did with IPSEC type VPN.

    They can only block the IP.

    Shadowsocks and wireguard will only generate traffic when there is an actual need.

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  • edited May 4

    @Not_Oles said: where you got the file from because you in china while you can't connect to outside the internet

    github is accessible,or download client from vpn provider's(a.k.a airport) website

    @Not_Oles said: What VPN you are using if you don't use V2rayN

    shadowsocks(r),trojan,wireguard

    @Not_Oles said: is OpenAI(ChatGPT) blocked too

    yes,api endpoints included
    openapi blocked china and GFW blocked openai API

    @Not_Oles said: is Bypass the firewall illegal?

    it depends, currently there are no legal about bypassing firewalls,but you can get caught as "breaking computer",also some place just simply arrest and warn you for fines or reach metrics
    basically most police call you because you send something political on social media, but most of Chinese bypassing GFW just for porns,lmao

    ah,reply to wrong person i think
    @dinopotato here you are

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  • @somik said: The largest tax payers are the big corporations (not their CEO or owners, but the business itself). Large business generates money that runs your country.

    What country do you live in? That's the way it's supposed to work but rarely the way it does work from my experience.

  • @somik said:

    @allnetstore said:

    is Bypass the firewall illegal?

    Foreigners don't have to worry about this.

    As a foreigner, if you go to china, you do have to worry about it though...

    imagine go to china can't use google translate lol

    @taizi said:

    @Not_Oles said: where you got the file from because you in china while you can't connect to outside the internet

    github is accessible,or download client from vpn provider's(a.k.a airport) website

    @Not_Oles said: What VPN you are using if you don't use V2rayN

    shadowsocks(r),trojan,wireguard

    @Not_Oles said: is OpenAI(ChatGPT) blocked too

    yes,api endpoints included
    openapi blocked china and GFW blocked openai API

    @Not_Oles said: is Bypass the firewall illegal?

    it depends, currently there are no legal about bypassing firewalls,but you can get caught as "breaking computer",also some place just simply arrest and warn you for fines or reach metrics
    basically most police call you because you send something political on social media, but most of Chinese bypassing GFW just for porns,lmao

    ah,reply to wrong person i think
    @dinopotato here you are

    Hi,i just wonder about why china don't give freedom about the internet, i just wondering

  • rootroot OG
    edited May 4

    @Encoders said:
    can we move on to technical discussion please? these political discussion yadda yadda can have their own offtopic thread

    True. But you see, people try to value privacy precisely due to political aspects. Many people start focusing on VPNs simply because they don't trust the governments and corporations anymore. In an utopia world where people would be happy and minding their own lives in peace, love and harmony for one another, there would be no need for VPNs and anonymity and protests.

    But unfortunately governments want to impose laws and monitor their populations like slaves, while people can't trust their governments precisely because politicians monitor their population, cling to power, and shake hands with rich entities. This is why VPNs were created; and this is why VPNs became illegal in some countries.

    With this in mind now comes the technical aspect, because some people want a VPN which can simply hide their IP for downloading something; while others simply want to hide from government controls and access web freely, like others do, just to stay informed (away from propaganda and agendas). It's a battle, or better yet a struggle for people to have some sense of freedom. There is a perverse paradox here: the more people want anonymity, the more governments and corporations start thinking their slaves are up to no good; and the more governments create laws to hinder freedom, the more consumers tend to desire anonymity. And we just started to scratch the surface in this paradox, as more protocols for VPNs will likely be developed.

    The end is nigh, one might say. But honestly I hope humanity will become more beautiful and more good to realise that greed and power are not the way to explore an infinite universe (since infinite greed could drive humanity crazy). I do not want to derail this thread which many people see as a solution for their firewall. But my opinion is that the problem is not with The Great Firewall; the problem is with the minds who thought of creating it and maintaining it in the first place - minds which are evil for power, greed, control, mistrust and lack of love - this is the underlying problem which really needs to be addressed, and nobody knows how this can be done diplomatically, without triggering security laws.

    Meanwhile, back on topic, I recommend: Shadowsocks, Wireguard (some public VPN providers have wireguard but their servers are marked by GFW), or Tor Project with a hidden bridge.

    From providers perspective, I recommend the cheapest VPS for VPN, because once the GFW blocks the IP, one can simply cancel the machine and deploy another server with a different IP.

    I don't have a gif, but I do have a nice short film somewhat related. Enjoy.

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  • @skorous said:

    @somik said: The largest tax payers are the big corporations (not their CEO or owners, but the business itself). Large business generates money that runs your country.

    What country do you live in? That's the way it's supposed to work but rarely the way it does work from my experience.

    Singapore. The whole country is just one big corporation.

    @dinopotato said:

    @somik said:
    As a foreigner, if you go to china, you do have to worry about it though...

    imagine go to china can't use google translate lol

    I did not think about that... F**K! I'll need to get a offline copy of everything (google translate, google maps, etc.) before I go...

  • @dinopotato said: Hi,i just wonder about why china don't give freedom about the internet, i just wondering

    better ask CCP

  • @taizi said:

    @dinopotato said: Hi,i just wonder about why china don't give freedom about the internet, i just wondering

    better ask CCP

    Or George Orwell.

  • @somik said: I did not think about that... F**K! I'll need to get a offline copy of everything (google translate, google maps, etc.) before I go...

    maybe just get a proper VPN
    some rumor said government give some VPN provider whitelist since foreign business needs vpn
    btw, guys, foreign vistors use VPN isn't illegal, police only check local residents lol

  • @taizi said:

    @somik said: I did not think about that... F**K! I'll need to get a offline copy of everything (google translate, google maps, etc.) before I go...

    btw, guys, foreign vistors use VPN isn't illegal, police only check local residents lol

    That's just being twofaced... Having differing rules for 2 groups of people [x_x]

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  • @somik build a VPN server at SG for yourself. You can view all the websites.

  • @nightcat said:
    @somik build a VPN server at SG for yourself. You can view all the websites.

    I actually have private VPN servers both in SG and in US. I'm just worried that I wont be able to access my servers if I go china...

  • @somik said:

    @nightcat said:
    @somik build a VPN server at SG for yourself. You can view all the websites.

    I actually have private VPN servers both in SG and in US. I'm just worried that I wont be able to access my servers if I go china...

    Sure, Don't worried.

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  • GFW is known to not interfere with international roaming of foreign carriers (Google Fi, for instance. Google for evidences from actual users). Whether unencrypted data on such links are monitored is anyone's guess. Use VPN etc. if this troubles you.

    If you choose to use local WIFI/ethernet in mainland, you are going through GFW. You have to use VPN etc. to get 'full' internet access. Well known and commonly used VPN providers may or may not work (stably). Personal VPN-like service may or may not work (stably). GFW is a huge blackbox.

    Big (international) companies are a different story. Commercial service with less restrictions can be openly bought from providers for 'legal' uses.

  • cccccc
    edited May 5

    There're only a few young people in China who's able to bypass GFW. Although it looks a large group of crossers, it is because people who focuses on these technologies / VPN / VPS gather in specific communities.

    Personal usage of V2ray / Shadowsocks won't be punished by Chinese government, although bypass GFW is illegal indeed. They only arrest those who developed software like V2ray / Shadowsocks, who taught others how to use VPN or who provide public VPN to others.

  • @ccc said:
    There're only a few young people in China who's able to bypass GFW. Although it looks a large group of crossers, it is because people who focuses on these technologies / VPN / VPS gather in specific communities.

    Ofcourse, we dont expect regular non-tech people to be using VPNs! I mean I know some who cant even use a smartphone properly and only can use facebook and whatsapp.

    @ccc said:
    Personal usage of V2ray / Shadowsocks won't be punished by Chinese government, although bypass GFW is illegal indeed.

    That's cause it doesn't make sense to go after everyone bypassing in monetary terms. Better to go after the high profile ones like influencers as a "warning" to the rest of the people.

    @ccc said:
    They only arrest those who developed software like V2ray / Shadowsocks, who taught others how to use VPN or who provide public VPN to others.

    Thats cause they are enabling others to bypass the law. So it makes sense to go after them. And since they are also making money off it, the government can impose fines and recover some of the money spent finding the "criminal".

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  • @terrorgen said:

    Shadowsocks and wireguard will only generate traffic when there is an actual need.

    If the has has a lot of traffic, it'll be blocked; regardless what protocol you are using; e.g., shadowsocks, wg, etc. Thus, wg and shadowsocks are not perfect.

  • @dinopotato said:
    Hi,i just wonder about why china don't give freedom about the internet, i just wondering

    Today there is no free internet. In US you can't upload anything that violates DMCA. US also seized Iran's domains like presstv.com . In Korea I believe they've banned most pr0n websites. Most countries censor the Internet for political, intellectual property protection, and child protection reasons.

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