@ccc said: Can charge for tickets first then refund for those who opened a normal ticket after solved.
We wouldn't do that for all tickets, it's too much to ask for that and unfair in some cases, plus it would be seen as a reason for us to avoid refunding it afterward and basically require a deposit to use support at all times.
We are going to consider it only for priority tickets but it may end up being a token system, where everyone gets one for free and then gets their token back if it was justified. I think that would solve any problems with that and make it better for everyone. We just need to implement and communicate it well. So once you're out of tokens (as in you misused priority) then it would require a deposit that will still be returned if it's justified.
For now we're starting to group people who make tickets they shouldn't and it gets marked so we know, and we try to focus on the people that haven't and this works out. Of course we still answer the others and mostly go based off other sorting orders unrelated.
So far it's definitely helping.
@lemoncube said:
TIL you can utilize RSS feed to get updated on Network Status. https://billing.virmach.com/networkissuesrss.php
Yeah I actually discovered this a long time ago and since discovering it basically sent out less emails unless absolutely necessary, since anyone who wants can do RSS. Of course it'd be cooler if you could have different feeds for specific servers.
@windytime said: great! Hope after cleaning this up, we can get the Tokyo servers working fine. Just ordered a server in Tokyo but it cannot be turned on (TYOC039). I see there is a scheduled maintenance in Tokyo, guess it's due to the maintenance, right?
A good number of these are naturally on Tokyo since the original 13 accounts are associated with forcing themselves into Tokyo.
TYOC039 is fine unless it's a recent activation. I have those on a list and will get to them with priority. If it's not a recent activation, it's possible that you may have re-installed it when it had an issue. And of course there may be other reasons. But you did say you just ordered it so it's the first thing. Basically it got created on a node it shouldn't have been created on, sorry about that. You'll have it re-activated and due date adjusted.
@Franzkafka said:
That's OK. Whatever the final result is,I still have to say:What you did is not good.You can set a deadline, require people provide more details to prove that they didn't violate your TOS.And then take actions.But you didn't, while suspended customer's service directly. It's a shame.
What YOU did is not good. You should respect the provider's terms of service before buying services from them. If you are knowingly abusing the provider, don't be surprised when they eventually no longer want to do business with you. At least they're letting you appeal your suspension.
Wait.Why do you think I violate Virmach's TOS? I can prove that I didn't violate any tos here. Actually I didn't complain about this cleanup,waht I complain is his unprofessional behaviors.
@Franzkafka said:
Wait.Why do you think I violate Virmach's TOS? I can prove that I didn't violate any tos here. Actually I didn't complain about this cleanup,waht I complain is his unprofessional behaviors.
If you can prove that you didn't violate TOS, then you should be fine.
@Franzkafka said:
That's OK. Whatever the final result is,I still have to say:What you did is not good.You can set a deadline, require people provide more details to prove that they didn't violate your TOS.And then take actions.But you didn't, while suspended customer's service directly. It's a shame.
What YOU did is not good. You should respect the provider's terms of service before buying services from them. If you are knowingly abusing the provider, don't be surprised when they eventually no longer want to do business with you. At least they're letting you appeal your suspension.
We may still proceed with all the others with a higher level of courtesy notices since we understand maybe it's associated with some people taking advantage of a situation without further malicious intent. It's a lot more work and usually not appreciated as it gets seen as "making up new rules." I'm fairly confident the same person would be complaining about that as well. I decided for this initial batch to process it exactly how we would normally.
So he may believe it's unprofessional to do it this way but it's generally how it works. It's not like it's some minor issue with slightly high I/O usage or CPU where previous warnings may be warranted. All it would do in this case, and one of the main reasons we did it this way outside of time constraints, is that if you let someone know that they're basically about to get permanently suspended, they either ignore it, or they can very easily lash out and use that time window as an opportunity to cause further damage. Since the group of people we're dealing with have been known to do that in the past, it made more sense to ensure it's just a suspension. In any other case, all the time, every day, people that have multiple accounts who also breach another portion of the terms of service get suspended in this exact way, and they don't come here complaining because they understand they were caught and maintain some level of self respect. And I'm not speaking of any particular person here, it's important to note that it's possible that any single person speaking here may obvious
Plus, in this case it wouldn't really benefit most the people outside of them denying any allegations which just wastes everyone's time. Same end result, and if they have important data they can still retrieve it.
@Franzkafka said:
Wait.Why do you think I violate Virmach's TOS? I can prove that I didn't violate any tos here. Actually I didn't complain about this cleanup,waht I complain is his unprofessional behaviors.
If you can prove that you didn't violate TOS, then you should be fine.
I'm interested at this point in knowing if he was the single person I replied to so far or the 19 others that had terrible appeals. Only one person even slightly attempted to provide details, maybe I missed his ticket, but it's interesting if he's that one ticket because the only reason that person was answered was because they were honest and admitted to violating the terms of service.
Okay anyway enough talking, I need to process the other half. Prepare for more crying.
I don't understand how anyone thinks we're just suspending before we've collected some level of evidence on our end. Like I'm just going through and using a random number generator to pick who to suspend next. That'd be pretty unprofessional, yes, if we first suspended people and then asked every single customer to first prove their innocence but that's not what's happening here.
It's not like we immediately terminated them all and wiped data. The suspension is the professional courtesy/half step already.
@Franzkafka said:
That's OK. Whatever the final result is,I still have to say:What you did is not good.You can set a deadline, require people provide more details to prove that they didn't violate your TOS.And then take actions.But you didn't, while suspended customer's service directly. It's a shame.
What YOU did is not good. You should respect the provider's terms of service before buying services from them. If you are knowingly abusing the provider, don't be surprised when they eventually no longer want to do business with you. At least they're letting you appeal your suspension.
We may still proceed with all the others with a higher level of courtesy notices since we understand maybe it's associated with some people taking advantage of a situation without further malicious intent. It's a lot more work and usually not appreciated as it gets seen as "making up new rules." I'm fairly confident the same person would be complaining about that as well. I decided for this initial batch to process it exactly how we would normally.
So he may believe it's unprofessional to do it this way but it's generally how it works. It's not like it's some minor issue with slightly high I/O usage or CPU where previous warnings may be warranted. All it would do in this case, and one of the main reasons we did it this way outside of time constraints, is that if you let someone know that they're basically about to get permanently suspended, they either ignore it, or they can very easily lash out and use that time window as an opportunity to cause further damage. Since the group of people we're dealing with have been known to do that in the past, it made more sense to ensure it's just a suspension. In any other case, all the time, every day, people that have multiple accounts who also breach another portion of the terms of service get suspended in this exact way, and they don't come here complaining because they understand they were caught and maintain some level of self respect. And I'm not speaking of any particular person here, it's important to note that it's possible that any single person speaking here may obvious
Plus, in this case it wouldn't really benefit most the people outside of them denying any allegations which just wastes everyone's time. Same end result, and if they have important data they can still retrieve it.
@Franzkafka said:
Wait.Why do you think I violate Virmach's TOS? I can prove that I didn't violate any tos here. Actually I didn't complain about this cleanup,waht I complain is his unprofessional behaviors.
If you can prove that you didn't violate TOS, then you should be fine.
I'm interested at this point in knowing if he was the single person I replied to so far or the 19 others that had terrible appeals. Only one person even slightly attempted to provide details, maybe I missed his ticket, but it's interesting if he's that one ticket because the only reason that person was answered was because they were honest and admitted to violating the terms of service.
Okay anyway enough talking, I need to process the other half. Prepare for more crying.
this is my APPEAL:
SUSPENSION APPEAL FORM
Suspension Reason: Account not in good standing
What were you running on your service?
I just ran a tiny service which can notify me when there are something update in my telegram.
Have you reviewed our terms of service and understand what is prohibited?
Yes,of course. I have read your tos before and I clearly know what is prohibited.
What steps will you take to prevent further abuse?
I will check more details after my service getting back.And I will check whether there are something abnormal.And make some changes here.
Do you know how to monitor your network usage, load, CPU usage, and I/O levels?
Of course I know,htop/top/iotop these commands will be helpful
May we access your service and/or reset your service if a problem is found?
yes,of course.
Can you tell me It's helpful for you to judge whether I violate your tos?I answered all questions.But I think these questions is not you need. And when you checked my ticket,you must ask me provide more info.this will waste more time.
No such word (x2). Information/Info has no plural, just like sheeps.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural. It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
What were you running on your service?
I just ran a tiny service which can notify me when there are something update in my telegram.
Have you reviewed our terms of service and understand what is prohibited?
Yes,of course. I have read your tos before and I clearly know what is prohibited.
What steps will you take to prevent further abuse?
I will check more details after my service getting back.And I will check whether there are something abnormal.And make some changes here.
Do you know how to monitor your network usage, load, CPU usage, and I/O levels?
Of course I know,htop/top/iotop these commands will be helpful
May we access your service and/or reset your service if a problem is found?
yes,of course.
Can you tell me It's helpful for you to judge whether I violate your tos?I answered all questions.But I think these questions is not you need. And when you checked my ticket,you must ask me provide more infos.this will waste more time.
Ah yes, you were definitely suspended for your Telegram notification bot and definitely not anything else. It's crazy how out of everyone, the most guilty always come here first to complain and scream the loudest. I'm sure you have tons of important data on there associated with sending notifications to Telegram. It's weird how you didn't even mention your data being important to you in the ticket either, you seem to be highly interested in just getting unsuspended.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
Would you like me to reply with an equally nonsensical reasoning for why you were suspended, since you made zero effort to actually appeal? Or do you want me to just close the ticket and not generate the suspension fee?
If you bought this account, you've already done enough lying and wasting time. If you claim you're the original and only owner, then it's much much worse. It sucks if you're actually a recent owner because everyone else really did a terrible job of hiding it. I'd say you should go to the seller and let him know how awful he is at doing it so he can maybe consider stopping to put everyone else at risk. I can pretty much guarantee every single person who bought one off him is going to get suspended. Anyone else I don't know, there's others on lists but this guy is one of the worst, an amateur. You should have approached this differently to give yourself a better chance. I don't understand why everyone also by default think they should act as if we're stupid instead of attempting to be honest. Maybe that worked for you when you were a child but all it does is essentially leave us no room to be able to reconsider since we can no longer trust any words that come out of your mouth.
@VirMach said:
I don't understand how anyone thinks we're just suspending before we've collected some level of evidence on our end. Like I'm just going through and using a random number generator to pick who to suspend next. That'd be pretty unprofessional, yes, if we first suspended people and then asked every single customer to first prove their innocence but that's not what's happening here.
It's not like we immediately terminated them all and wiped data. The suspension is the professional courtesy/half step already.
Though random number or community nominated accounts to be checked could be an interesting game too ...
@VirMach said: ..you've already done enough lying and wasting time.
Instaban - everywhere.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural. It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
@Franzkafka said: That's OK. Whatever the final result is,I still have to say:What you did is not good.You can set a deadline, require people provide more details to prove that they didn't violate your TOS
You don't do stuff like that because those people are already a risk. They (most of them, some could be innocent) were already caught and some people out of pettiness/"revenge"/"fuck you VirMach, I know I abused your system, but fuck you" could go to other extremes and start DDOSing/spamming/blocking IPs on GFW on purpose etc etc. Not all people are nice people and people already deemed breaking ToS are most likely not the nice people.
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
@Franzkafka said:
Frankly I don't want provide much private info but I will provide my proof for the first time payment.
Like VirMach states few times in messages here - you are expected to provide ALL info, not just the one that suits you. This is quiet a big red flag already - you picking up what info you want to provide, what not :-)
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
Interesting?
1) I installed Alma from WHCMS = all good. Then I installed Debian in SolusVM = flags reset.
2) I installed Alma from WHCMS = all good. Then I installed Debian 11 Netinst in WHCMS = all good.
Just in case someone else "falls into the trap".
BTW, that's quite some list of ISO, especially useful netinst/minimal/rescue/netboot.xyz, in Client Area.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural. It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
@Jab said: This is quiet quite a big red flag already..
Shhh
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural. It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
@Franzkafka said:
Frankly I don't want provide much private info but I will provide my proof for the first time payment.
Like VirMach states few times in messages here - you are expected to provide ALL info, not just the one that suits you. This is quiet a big red flag already - you picking up what info you want to provide, what not :-)
The only reason I offered a quick and easy resolution in that case is because I know no one's going to do it. Essentially it's a good way to immediately prove you're innocent but since no one is suspected of that, it'll just be rounds of bad excuses.
Outside of the pricing and availability, I don't understand why anyone would purchase one of these. I understand pricing and availability are important but clearly the benefits are highly diminished if you have to pay some shady guy for an account. Every time I've asked any of these people for more information, I just get stonewalled. Like do they get off on trading these? We can pretty much have unlimited availability at some of these prices with coupons for those markets if someone wants it that bad since it's not a very "special" anymore. No one seems to want to present an actual solution.
Like for the popular $8.88 Tokyo 384MB that renews at $8.88 what did people pay? If it's like $X one-time and then they're responsible for renewal then that makes it possible to do the same thing with a setup fee. If it's re-occurring and they don't actually get full account access then $8.88+X recurring can be done as well.
Or is it the ease of immediate access instead of having to wait for more servers? Maybe the sellers are just marketing themselves better than we do.
These sellers even double dip into affiliate earnings with some crappy ponzi scheme they created and it basically ended up grinding affiliate payouts to a halt because it's so time consuming to do when pretty much 90% of affiliates are associated in some way. We've been trying to finish rolling out a few systems to help with that so we can finish vetting them and actually pay out the legitimate people so they don't think we're just scamming them.
They create so many problems but minimal benefits.
VirMach is making space available for all those ( community) who took part in the guessing game, and showing his VirmAche avatar, for real, to all the tossers (ToS breakers).
Sounds like I need lots of popcorn today, and I haven't even gotten over to the OGF yet lol. Going to be fun to see how many of the usual anti-virmach posters come out today/tomorrow about their VPS suddenly not working again.
@soulchief said:
Sounds like I need lots of popcorn today, and I haven't even gotten over to the OGF yet lol. Going to be fun to see how many of the usual anti-virmach posters come out today/tomorrow about their VPS suddenly not working again.
Yeah I've already thought about that before starting on these and thought the same thing. I'm going to guess something along the lines of all these people saying they got suspended for no reason and we must be going out of business, followed by pretend-concerned JB "Really? Can anyone else confirm this?" except probably even more malicious this time. If that's how they acted when they essentially knew what was going on imagine how they'll act now that they don't.
What were you running on your service?
I just ran a tiny service which can notify me when there are something update in my telegram.
Have you reviewed our terms of service and understand what is prohibited?
Yes,of course. I have read your tos before and I clearly know what is prohibited.
What steps will you take to prevent further abuse?
I will check more details after my service getting back.And I will check whether there are something abnormal.And make some changes here.
Do you know how to monitor your network usage, load, CPU usage, and I/O levels?
Of course I know,htop/top/iotop these commands will be helpful
May we access your service and/or reset your service if a problem is found?
yes,of course.
Can you tell me It's helpful for you to judge whether I violate your tos?I answered all questions.But I think these questions is not you need. And when you checked my ticket,you must ask me provide more infos.this will waste more time.
Ah yes, you were definitely suspended for your Telegram notification bot and definitely not anything else. It's crazy how out of everyone, the most guilty always come here first to complain and scream the loudest. I'm sure you have tons of important data on there associated with sending notifications to Telegram. It's weird how you didn't even mention your data being important to you in the ticket either, you seem to be highly interested in just getting unsuspended.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
Would you like me to reply with an equally nonsensical reasoning for why you were suspended, since you made zero effort to actually appeal? Or do you want me to just close the ticket and not generate the suspension fee?
If you bought this account, you've already done enough lying and wasting time. If you claim you're the original and only owner, then it's much much worse. It sucks if you're actually a recent owner because everyone else really did a terrible job of hiding it. I'd say you should go to the seller and let him know how awful he is at doing it so he can maybe consider stopping to put everyone else at risk. I can pretty much guarantee every single person who bought one off him is going to get suspended. Anyone else I don't know, there's others on lists but this guy is one of the worst, an amateur. You should have approached this differently to give yourself a better chance. I don't understand why everyone also by default think they should act as if we're stupid instead of attempting to be honest. Maybe that worked for you when you were a child but all it does is essentially leave us no room to be able to reconsider since we can no longer trust any words that come out of your mouth.
you seem to be highly interested in just getting unsuspended.
No.I am here not for getting my service back.And actually I already decided to give it up.You think you are right, that's OK. I don't want to argue that.And Please delete my Virmach account immediately.Hope you everything well.
Mods here should do the same: set an example. I summon @bikegremlin & @Mason - you know you want to.
Maybe, just maybe the MJJ will get the message not to deal with chicken scalpers, but I doubt it.
MS I get the sentiment and agree but I don't think that it came across quite right. I liked the ToS association.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural. It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
In other news, we still essentially have one main problem left and that's all these broken operating systems getting booted back up manually or being dormant until they decide to absolutely thrash the server.
I obviously don't want to suspend them unless in some cases where it's absolutely necessary to keep the node from going down, but we can't just keep playing whack-a-mole with them either if the customer keeps deciding to power it on and then angrily shake their fist without re-installing the OS, maybe they have data they need or we just need to make it to their tickets.
I think we're going to set up some node(s) and just move all these people to one node where they can't affect others. The node will pretty much be unusable but at least it'll grab their attention and also make it more manageable in a "staging area" and we can also send out mass emails and basically have these people get funneled into a specific queue to get their service recreated elsewhere and then request their broken image if they have important files. If anyone has a better suggestion let me know. We could also technically keep a copy of their image and then re-install it but I feel like that's the same result with extra steps and grief since we'll get a lot of people then confused on why their original OS disappeared.
@AlwaysSkint said: MS I get the sentiment and agree but I don't think that it came across quite right. I liked the ToS association.
Any time they get caught they always want their account fully wiped as well, so they can try to pretend like they can outsmart our system again. Listen, I'm not saying the system is very sophisticated but apparently with this group it doesn't have to be... it gets the job done.
I'm disappointed... I don't see anyone complaining over at OGF yet. Got all excited when I opened the site up expecting to see the main thread at the top of the list. Oh well, I'm sure the herd will come soon.
@soulchief said:
I'm disappointed... I don't see anyone complaining over at OGF yet. Got all excited when I opened the site up expecting to see the main thread at the top of the list. Oh well, I'm sure the herd will come soon.
Aye, not an easy one to tackle. Sounds like a good plan unless others can chime in with anything better. I guess there's a heap of folks that keep their VMs as 'spare'. Must admit I do sometimes have one (max. 2) offline, until I have got around to purposing them, for example.
To paraphrase; the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural. It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
@soulchief said:
I'm disappointed... I don't see anyone complaining over at OGF yet. Got all excited when I opened the site up expecting to see the main thread at the top of the list. Oh well, I'm sure the herd will come soon.
I still haven't done the other half and all this whining is motivating me to push through a few more batches that weren't planned yet. It's funny because that's how I originally ended up doing this portion first, one of the accounts basically sent a very annoying smoke signal outing themselves and the ticket was so annoying I ended up spending the next hour gathering them all up last week using that one as patient zero.
He had a pretty insane $2/YR deal too, but he had to keep going out of his way to be greedy. God I wish I could find the original copy/paste, it'd all make more sense.
@AlwaysSkint said: MS I get the sentiment and agree but I don't think that it came across quite right. I liked the ToS association.
Any time they get caught they always want their account fully wiped as well, so they can try to pretend like they can outsmart our system again. Listen, I'm not saying the system is very sophisticated but apparently with this group it doesn't have to be... it gets the job done.
Why are you so arrogant? Listen,I don't require you delete my account,just suspend my account forever.And there's no need to reply my ticket. Everything is done here.
@AlwaysSkint said: MS I get the sentiment and agree but I don't think that it came across quite right. I liked the ToS association.
Any time they get caught they always want their account fully wiped as well, so they can try to pretend like they can outsmart our system again. Listen, I'm not saying the system is very sophisticated but apparently with this group it doesn't have to be... it gets the job done.
Why are you so arrogant? Listen,I don't require you delete my account,just suspend my account forever.And there's no need to reply my ticket. Everything is done here.
Well, pretty sure your account is already suspended forever and he probably wasn't planning on replying to your ticket. So correct, everything is already done. Good bye!
I WAS going to suffer the rain & cold to fix up a couple of bicycles but this is too "entertaining". Hmm... I'll be back!
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural. It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
Good Job
But you're going to get a lot of complaints, and you're going to hurt your business anyway by banning a lot of users' accounts and not refunding them.
@fullmoon said:
Good Job
But you're going to get a lot of abuse, and you're going to hurt your business anyway by banning a lot of users' accounts and not refunding them.
Probably would free up time to do more important things though. I can imagine how much time is already spent fixing issues that are caused by the abusers.
@VirMach said:
If someone were arrogant, I wonder if they would (A) immediately come here to complain, lie, and refuse to admit fault, or (B) not be @Franzkafka
Yes.What you said also applies to yourself.Bad support, long downtime，terrible techniques.And don't forget migrations lasting up to one year.You should go back to LET to see those complains about your service.
@fullmoon said:
Good Job
But you're going to get a lot of complaints, and you're going to hurt your business anyway by banning a lot of users' accounts and not refunding them.
Original plan was to refund everyone but the initial list was mostly outside of a potential refund period, and secondly that would just encourage resale since that just means the original owner got his money back and the money of others. It doesn't actually help. We're also talking such small numbers that the cost for actually manually processing these already exceeds any money received. Best case scenario, assuming the original owner is the current owner, then they'll just buy again and repeat the cycle.
I understand how it can be twisted to appear as if we're doing this for monetary gain but not much that can be done about it.
Honestly, in this case, "hurting" our business sounds a lot like making sure this particular group of people who did these things will no longer make purchases, which is exactly what we want anyway. But yes, it also means the people that got into this situation by using scalpers will also not be interested in making another purchase in the future which is a shame. I wish it was possible to do it any other way. We don't mind having these people if I could snap my fingers and undo the actions, except in reality it would mean we have to do a ton of work since we can barely even convince people to be honest to start that conversation.
@VirMach said:
If someone were arrogant, I wonder if they would (A) immediately come here to complain, lie, and refuse to admit fault, or (B) not be @Franzkafka
Yes.What you said also applies to yourself.Bad support, long downtime，terrible techniques.And don't forget migrations lasting up to one year.You should go back to LET to see those complains about your service.
It's so bad that people go out of their way and pay extra to scalpers to have it.
@fullmoon said:
Good Job
But you're going to get a lot of complaints, and you're going to hurt your business anyway by banning a lot of users' accounts and not refunding them.
Original plan was to refund everyone but the initial list was mostly outside of a potential refund period, and secondly that would just encourage resale since that just means the original owner got his money back and the money of others. It doesn't actually help. We're also talking such small numbers that the cost for actually manually processing these already exceeds any money received. Best case scenario, assuming the original owner is the current owner, then they'll just buy again and repeat the cycle.
I understand how it can be twisted to appear as if we're doing this for monetary gain but not much that can be done about it.
Honestly, in this case, "hurting" our business sounds a lot like making sure this particular group of people who did these things will no longer make purchases, which is exactly what we want anyway. But yes, it also means the people that got into this situation by using scalpers will also not be interested in making another purchase in the future which is a shame. I wish it was possible to do it any other way. We don't mind having these people if I could snap my fingers and undo the actions, except in reality it would mean we have to do a ton of work since we can barely even convince people to be honest to start that conversation.
@VirMach said:
If someone were arrogant, I wonder if they would (A) immediately come here to complain, lie, and refuse to admit fault, or (B) not be @Franzkafka
Yes.What you said also applies to yourself.Bad support, long downtime，terrible techniques.And don't forget migrations lasting up to one year.You should go back to LET to see those complains about your service.
It's so bad that people go out of their way and pay extra to scalpers to have it.
It's so bad that people go out of their way and pay extra to scalpers to have it.
yes. It's right.And only customers hurt here.But Just let it go. Everyone should have a lesson.
@fullmoon said:
Good Job
But you're going to get a lot of complaints, and you're going to hurt your business anyway by banning a lot of users' accounts and not refunding them.
Original plan was to refund everyone but the initial list was mostly outside of a potential refund period, and secondly that would just encourage resale since that just means the original owner got his money back and the money of others. It doesn't actually help. We're also talking such small numbers that the cost for actually manually processing these already exceeds any money received. Best case scenario, assuming the original owner is the current owner, then they'll just buy again and repeat the cycle.
I understand how it can be twisted to appear as if we're doing this for monetary gain but not much that can be done about it.
Honestly, in this case, "hurting" our business sounds a lot like making sure this particular group of people who did these things will no longer make purchases, which is exactly what we want anyway. But yes, it also means the people that got into this situation by using scalpers will also not be interested in making another purchase in the future which is a shame. I wish it was possible to do it any other way. We don't mind having these people if I could snap my fingers and undo the actions, except in reality it would mean we have to do a ton of work since we can barely even convince people to be honest to start that conversation.
@VirMach said:
If someone were arrogant, I wonder if they would (A) immediately come here to complain, lie, and refuse to admit fault, or (B) not be @Franzkafka
Yes.What you said also applies to yourself.Bad support, long downtime，terrible techniques.And don't forget migrations lasting up to one year.You should go back to LET to see those complains about your service.
It's so bad that people go out of their way and pay extra to scalpers to have it.
It's so bad that people go out of their way and pay extra to scalpers to have it.
yes. It's right.And only customers hurt here.But Just let it go. Everyone should have a lesson.
Yet here you are, not letting it go and you're not taking this as a lesson.
Take your own advice before you start giving advice to others.
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here. Do you think there's a better solution outside of just wanting to continue to allow this behavior to proceed? Okay sure let's say we ignored the problems associated with scalpers. Does that immediately also remove the other host of problems directly related to the same group? When they abuse our hospitality constantly in many ways, try to cheat their way to a profit, and make it more difficult to be able to get the product to the consumer directly? When services randomly exchange hands and end up mostly in the hands of abusers, what do we do then? Spend a lot of time for something not intended to be abused to that level? You do realize maybe in your case this isn't true but there's no way to know how many more times it will be traded and who ends up with it. No risk, abusers can just buy random services and use it in the worst way possible just to generate a tiny fraction of a revenue. There's reasons the policy and process exists.
So perhaps in an ideal world if the only problem was the multiple accounts or account sales, and none of the other related problems existed, maybe we could be less harsh.
If I gave you a warning, how would it help you? What would you have wanted done instead? Imagine the conversations we had today and we barely even got into the actual process of appeal, you genuinely believe that for a $8.88 per year service we should dedicate concierge services for hours per person? Because that's what it would take. The $25 fee isn't there to generate profit, it's very in line with the amount of work required in these cases. So when the product ends up being such a low price it seems like an unfair amount, but there's a different cost to a human being's time versus an automated system.
You can answer that or you can continue to tell me "let it go" when you clearly haven't. At any time you can stop responding if you desire.
(edit) And why is it that in this case you believe only the customer hurts? Do you think I want to spend hours doing this just to suspend maybe a few hundred dollars in services? You believe I enjoy the additional work? You do realize we are actually trying to ensure there's evidence for every case before we just randomly hit suspend and that takes time to compile?
Perhaps there's a disconnect between the value of support and a person's time. You should understand that the average salary for someone doing the amount of work here results in the process immediately costing more than it's worth. Yes, I am doing this work myself but if anyone else on our team, even a brand new intern getting paid the minimum did it, the cost would exceed the entire cost of the service.
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here. Do you think there's a better solution outside of just wanting to continue to allow this behavior to proceed? Okay sure let's say we ignored the problems associated with scalpers. Does that immediately also remove the other host of problems directly related to the same group? When they abuse our hospitality constantly in many ways, try to cheat their way to a profit, and make it more difficult to be able to get the product to the consumer directly? When services randomly exchange hands and end up mostly in the hands of abusers, what do we do then? Spend a lot of time for something not intended to be abused to that level? You do realize maybe in your case this isn't true but there's no way to know how many more times it will be traded and who ends up with it. No risk, abusers can just buy random services and use it in the worst way possible just to generate a tiny fraction of a revenue. There's reasons the policy and process exists.
So perhaps in an ideal world if the only problem was the multiple accounts or account sales, and none of the other related problems existed, maybe we could be less harsh.
If I gave you a warning, how would it help you? What would you have wanted done instead? Imagine the conversations we had today and we barely even got into the actual process of appeal, you genuinely believe that for a $8.88 per year service we should dedicate concierge services for hours per person? Because that's what it would take. The $25 fee isn't there to generate profit, it's very in line with the amount of work required in these cases. So when the product ends up being such a low price it seems like an unfair amount, but there's a different cost to a human being's time versus an automated system.
You can answer that or you can continue to tell me "let it go" when you clearly haven't. At any time you can stop responding if you desire.
(edit) And why is it that in this case you believe only the customer hurts? Do you think I want to spend hours doing this just to suspend maybe a few hundred dollars in services? You believe I enjoy the additional work? You do realize we are actually trying to ensure there's evidence for every case before we just randomly hit suspend and that takes time to compile?
You know that only the customer is injured. Do you still want to do this? I am the injured customer. The trafficker taught me a lesson with you. Do you want to hear some advice? Let me talk about my thoughts. That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties. And they are prohibited from continuing to modify anything that can be sold, such as modifying mailboxes. It's really painful to suspend the service directly. I paid more, but I was sanctioned by you.
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here. Do you think there's a better solution outside of just wanting to continue to allow this behavior to proceed? Okay sure let's say we ignored the problems associated with scalpers. Does that immediately also remove the other host of problems directly related to the same group? When they abuse our hospitality constantly in many ways, try to cheat their way to a profit, and make it more difficult to be able to get the product to the consumer directly? When services randomly exchange hands and end up mostly in the hands of abusers, what do we do then? Spend a lot of time for something not intended to be abused to that level? You do realize maybe in your case this isn't true but there's no way to know how many more times it will be traded and who ends up with it. No risk, abusers can just buy random services and use it in the worst way possible just to generate a tiny fraction of a revenue. There's reasons the policy and process exists.
So perhaps in an ideal world if the only problem was the multiple accounts or account sales, and none of the other related problems existed, maybe we could be less harsh.
If I gave you a warning, how would it help you? What would you have wanted done instead? Imagine the conversations we had today and we barely even got into the actual process of appeal, you genuinely believe that for a $8.88 per year service we should dedicate concierge services for hours per person? Because that's what it would take. The $25 fee isn't there to generate profit, it's very in line with the amount of work required in these cases. So when the product ends up being such a low price it seems like an unfair amount, but there's a different cost to a human being's time versus an automated system.
You can answer that or you can continue to tell me "let it go" when you clearly haven't. At any time you can stop responding if you desire.
(edit) And why is it that in this case you believe only the customer hurts? Do you think I want to spend hours doing this just to suspend maybe a few hundred dollars in services? You believe I enjoy the additional work? You do realize we are actually trying to ensure there's evidence for every case before we just randomly hit suspend and that takes time to compile?
Perhaps there's a disconnect between the value of support and a person's time. You should understand that the average salary for someone doing the amount of work here results in the process immediately costing more than it's worth. Yes, I am doing this work myself but if anyone else on our team, even a brand new intern getting paid the minimum did it, the cost would exceed the entire cost of the service.
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here
Are you serious?
That's OK. Whatever the final result is,I still have to say:What you did is not good.You can set a deadline, require people provide more details to prove that they didn't violate your TOS.And then take actions.But you didn't, while suspended customer's service directly. It's a shame
One more thing,plz modified your SUSPENSION APPEAL FORM template. Current template you just require customers answer questions While most questions have nothing to do with this cleanup.If you need customers provide more personal infos to prove he didn't violate TOS, please give your requirement clear. While not publish your announcement about this cleanup in Lowendscript forum. Again,you didn't notify your customers about this cleanup and why.
I think I already gave my feedback here.But you ignored what I said above.Not a big deal here.I won't reply again.
@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
Emails are sent on suspension. Anything I discuss here is not necessary, it can be ignored. I'm just enforcing the same policies we always have and doing it in the exact same way. I'm not making up anything new.
@0xff said:
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
Emails are sent on suspension. Anything I discuss here is not necessary, it can be ignored. I'm just enforcing the same policies we always have and doing it in the exact same way. I'm not making up anything new.
Thank you for posting these
got my popcorn eaten up
Comments
We wouldn't do that for all tickets, it's too much to ask for that and unfair in some cases, plus it would be seen as a reason for us to avoid refunding it afterward and basically require a deposit to use support at all times.
We are going to consider it only for priority tickets but it may end up being a token system, where everyone gets one for free and then gets their token back if it was justified. I think that would solve any problems with that and make it better for everyone. We just need to implement and communicate it well. So once you're out of tokens (as in you misused priority) then it would require a deposit that will still be returned if it's justified.
For now we're starting to group people who make tickets they shouldn't and it gets marked so we know, and we try to focus on the people that haven't and this works out. Of course we still answer the others and mostly go based off other sorting orders unrelated.
So far it's definitely helping.
Yeah I actually discovered this a long time ago and since discovering it basically sent out less emails unless absolutely necessary, since anyone who wants can do RSS. Of course it'd be cooler if you could have different feeds for specific servers.
A good number of these are naturally on Tokyo since the original 13 accounts are associated with forcing themselves into Tokyo.
TYOC039 is fine unless it's a recent activation. I have those on a list and will get to them with priority. If it's not a recent activation, it's possible that you may have re-installed it when it had an issue. And of course there may be other reasons. But you did say you just ordered it so it's the first thing. Basically it got created on a node it shouldn't have been created on, sorry about that. You'll have it re-activated and due date adjusted.
Wait.Why do you think I violate Virmach's TOS? I can prove that I didn't violate any tos here. Actually I didn't complain about this cleanup,waht I complain is his unprofessional behaviors.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
If you can prove that you didn't violate TOS, then you should be fine.
We may still proceed with all the others with a higher level of courtesy notices since we understand maybe it's associated with some people taking advantage of a situation without further malicious intent. It's a lot more work and usually not appreciated as it gets seen as "making up new rules." I'm fairly confident the same person would be complaining about that as well. I decided for this initial batch to process it exactly how we would normally.
So he may believe it's unprofessional to do it this way but it's generally how it works. It's not like it's some minor issue with slightly high I/O usage or CPU where previous warnings may be warranted. All it would do in this case, and one of the main reasons we did it this way outside of time constraints, is that if you let someone know that they're basically about to get permanently suspended, they either ignore it, or they can very easily lash out and use that time window as an opportunity to cause further damage. Since the group of people we're dealing with have been known to do that in the past, it made more sense to ensure it's just a suspension. In any other case, all the time, every day, people that have multiple accounts who also breach another portion of the terms of service get suspended in this exact way, and they don't come here complaining because they understand they were caught and maintain some level of self respect. And I'm not speaking of any particular person here, it's important to note that it's possible that any single person speaking here may obvious
Plus, in this case it wouldn't really benefit most the people outside of them denying any allegations which just wastes everyone's time. Same end result, and if they have important data they can still retrieve it.
I'm interested at this point in knowing if he was the single person I replied to so far or the 19 others that had terrible appeals. Only one person even slightly attempted to provide details, maybe I missed his ticket, but it's interesting if he's that one ticket because the only reason that person was answered was because they were honest and admitted to violating the terms of service.
Okay anyway enough talking, I need to process the other half. Prepare for more crying.
I don't understand how anyone thinks we're just suspending before we've collected some level of evidence on our end. Like I'm just going through and using a random number generator to pick who to suspend next. That'd be pretty unprofessional, yes, if we first suspended people and then asked every single customer to first prove their innocence but that's not what's happening here.
It's not like we immediately terminated them all and wiped data. The suspension is the professional courtesy/half step already.
this is my APPEAL:
SUSPENSION APPEAL FORM
Suspension Reason: Account not in good standing
What were you running on your service?
I just ran a tiny service which can notify me when there are something update in my telegram.
Have you reviewed our terms of service and understand what is prohibited?
Yes,of course. I have read your tos before and I clearly know what is prohibited.
What steps will you take to prevent further abuse?
I will check more details after my service getting back.And I will check whether there are something abnormal.And make some changes here.
Do you know how to monitor your network usage, load, CPU usage, and I/O levels?
Of course I know,htop/top/iotop these commands will be helpful
May we access your service and/or reset your service if a problem is found?
yes,of course.
Can you tell me It's helpful for you to judge whether I violate your tos?I answered all questions.But I think these questions is not you need. And when you checked my ticket,you must ask me provide more info.this will waste more time.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
@Franzkafka
Did you also give the documentation to prove your account ownership?
https://lowendspirit.com/discussion/comment/102248/#Comment_102248
Frankly I don't want provide much private info but I will provide my proof for the first time payment.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
No such word (x2). Information/Info has no plural, just like sheeps.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
Thank you very much. It worked great on NYCB015.
Ah yes, you were definitely suspended for your Telegram notification bot and definitely not anything else. It's crazy how out of everyone, the most guilty always come here first to complain and scream the loudest. I'm sure you have tons of important data on there associated with sending notifications to Telegram. It's weird how you didn't even mention your data being important to you in the ticket either, you seem to be highly interested in just getting unsuspended.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
Would you like me to reply with an equally nonsensical reasoning for why you were suspended, since you made zero effort to actually appeal? Or do you want me to just close the ticket and not generate the suspension fee?
If you bought this account, you've already done enough lying and wasting time. If you claim you're the original and only owner, then it's much much worse. It sucks if you're actually a recent owner because everyone else really did a terrible job of hiding it. I'd say you should go to the seller and let him know how awful he is at doing it so he can maybe consider stopping to put everyone else at risk. I can pretty much guarantee every single person who bought one off him is going to get suspended. Anyone else I don't know, there's others on lists but this guy is one of the worst, an amateur. You should have approached this differently to give yourself a better chance. I don't understand why everyone also by default think they should act as if we're stupid instead of attempting to be honest. Maybe that worked for you when you were a child but all it does is essentially leave us no room to be able to reconsider since we can no longer trust any words that come out of your mouth.
Though random number or community nominated accounts to be checked could be an interesting game too ...
Instaban - everywhere.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
You don't do stuff like that because those people are already a risk. They (most of them, some could be innocent) were already caught and some people out of pettiness/"revenge"/"fuck you VirMach, I know I abused your system, but fuck you" could go to other extremes and start DDOSing/spamming/blocking IPs on GFW on purpose etc etc. Not all people are nice people and people already deemed breaking ToS are most likely not the nice people.
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
Like VirMach states few times in messages here - you are expected to provide ALL info, not just the one that suits you. This is quiet a big red flag already - you picking up what info you want to provide, what not :-)
Haven't bought a single service in VirMach Great Ryzen 2022 - 2023 Flash Sale.
Interesting?
1) I installed Alma from WHCMS = all good. Then I installed Debian in SolusVM = flags reset.
2) I installed Alma from WHCMS = all good. Then I installed Debian 11 Netinst in WHCMS = all good.
Just in case someone else "falls into the trap".
BTW, that's quite some list of ISO, especially useful netinst/minimal/rescue/netboot.xyz, in Client Area.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
Shhh
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
The only reason I offered a quick and easy resolution in that case is because I know no one's going to do it. Essentially it's a good way to immediately prove you're innocent but since no one is suspected of that, it'll just be rounds of bad excuses.
Outside of the pricing and availability, I don't understand why anyone would purchase one of these. I understand pricing and availability are important but clearly the benefits are highly diminished if you have to pay some shady guy for an account. Every time I've asked any of these people for more information, I just get stonewalled. Like do they get off on trading these? We can pretty much have unlimited availability at some of these prices with coupons for those markets if someone wants it that bad since it's not a very "special" anymore. No one seems to want to present an actual solution.
Like for the popular $8.88 Tokyo 384MB that renews at $8.88 what did people pay? If it's like $X one-time and then they're responsible for renewal then that makes it possible to do the same thing with a setup fee. If it's re-occurring and they don't actually get full account access then $8.88+X recurring can be done as well.
Or is it the ease of immediate access instead of having to wait for more servers? Maybe the sellers are just marketing themselves better than we do.
These sellers even double dip into affiliate earnings with some crappy ponzi scheme they created and it basically ended up grinding affiliate payouts to a halt because it's so time consuming to do when pretty much 90% of affiliates are associated in some way. We've been trying to finish rolling out a few systems to help with that so we can finish vetting them and actually pay out the legitimate people so they don't think we're just scamming them.
They create so many problems but minimal benefits.
VirMach is making space available for all those (
community) who took part in the guessing game, and showing his VirmAche avatar, for real, to all the tossers (ToS breakers).
Have you tried turning it off and on again?Sounds like I need lots of popcorn today, and I haven't even gotten over to the OGF yet lol. Going to be fun to see how many of the usual anti-virmach posters come out today/tomorrow about their VPS suddenly not working again.
Yeah I've already thought about that before starting on these and thought the same thing. I'm going to guess something along the lines of all these people saying they got suspended for no reason and we must be going out of business, followed by pretend-concerned JB "Really? Can anyone else confirm this?" except probably even more malicious this time. If that's how they acted when they essentially knew what was going on imagine how they'll act now that they don't.
you seem to be highly interested in just getting unsuspended.
No.I am here not for getting my service back.And actually I already decided to give it up.You think you are right, that's OK. I don't want to argue that.And Please delete my Virmach account immediately.Hope you everything well.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
So it's an international thing, that there's people who don't think the rules apply to them.
Mods here should do the same: set an example. I summon @bikegremlin & @Mason - you know you want to.
Maybe, just maybe the MJJ will get the message not to deal with chicken scalpers, but I doubt it.
MS I get the sentiment and agree but I don't think that it came across quite right. I liked the ToS association.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
In other news, we still essentially have one main problem left and that's all these broken operating systems getting booted back up manually or being dormant until they decide to absolutely thrash the server.
I obviously don't want to suspend them unless in some cases where it's absolutely necessary to keep the node from going down, but we can't just keep playing whack-a-mole with them either if the customer keeps deciding to power it on and then angrily shake their fist without re-installing the OS, maybe they have data they need or we just need to make it to their tickets.
I think we're going to set up some node(s) and just move all these people to one node where they can't affect others. The node will pretty much be unusable but at least it'll grab their attention and also make it more manageable in a "staging area" and we can also send out mass emails and basically have these people get funneled into a specific queue to get their service recreated elsewhere and then request their broken image if they have important files. If anyone has a better suggestion let me know. We could also technically keep a copy of their image and then re-install it but I feel like that's the same result with extra steps and grief since we'll get a lot of people then confused on why their original OS disappeared.
Any time they get caught they always want their account fully wiped as well, so they can try to pretend like they can outsmart our system again. Listen, I'm not saying the system is very sophisticated but apparently with this group it doesn't have to be... it gets the job done.
I'm disappointed... I don't see anyone complaining over at OGF yet. Got all excited when I opened the site up expecting to see the main thread at the top of the list. Oh well, I'm sure the herd will come soon.
Maybe try the MJJ nest?
Aye, not an easy one to tackle. Sounds like a good plan unless others can chime in with anything better. I guess there's a heap of folks that keep their VMs as 'spare'. Must admit I do sometimes have one (max. 2) offline, until I have got around to purposing them, for example.
To paraphrase; the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
I still haven't done the other half and all this whining is motivating me to push through a few more batches that weren't planned yet. It's funny because that's how I originally ended up doing this portion first, one of the accounts basically sent a very annoying smoke signal outing themselves and the ticket was so annoying I ended up spending the next hour gathering them all up last week using that one as patient zero.
He had a pretty insane $2/YR deal too, but he had to keep going out of his way to be greedy. God I wish I could find the original copy/paste, it'd all make more sense.
Why are you so arrogant? Listen,I don't require you delete my account,just suspend my account forever.And there's no need to reply my ticket. Everything is done here.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
If someone were arrogant, I wonder if they would (A) immediately come here to complain, lie, and refuse to admit fault, or (B) not be @Franzkafka
Well, pretty sure your account is already suspended forever and he probably wasn't planning on replying to your ticket. So correct, everything is already done. Good bye!
I WAS going to suffer the rain & cold to fix up a couple of bicycles but this is too "entertaining".
Hmm... I'll be back!
In stasis until the shitposting stops/abates.
Than=compare;then=sequence:brought=bring;bought=buy:staffs=pile of sticks:informations/infos=no plural.
It wisnae me! A big boy done it and ran away. || NVMe2G for life! until death (the end is nigh).
Good Job
But you're going to get a lot of complaints, and you're going to hurt your business anyway by banning a lot of users' accounts and not refunding them.
Probably would free up time to do more important things though. I can imagine how much time is already spent fixing issues that are caused by the abusers.
will you get me some some juice --- bite thirsty.
Yes.What you said also applies to yourself.Bad support, long downtime，terrible techniques.And don't forget migrations lasting up to one year.You should go back to LET to see those complains about your service.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
Original plan was to refund everyone but the initial list was mostly outside of a potential refund period, and secondly that would just encourage resale since that just means the original owner got his money back and the money of others. It doesn't actually help. We're also talking such small numbers that the cost for actually manually processing these already exceeds any money received. Best case scenario, assuming the original owner is the current owner, then they'll just buy again and repeat the cycle.
I understand how it can be twisted to appear as if we're doing this for monetary gain but not much that can be done about it.
Honestly, in this case, "hurting" our business sounds a lot like making sure this particular group of people who did these things will no longer make purchases, which is exactly what we want anyway. But yes, it also means the people that got into this situation by using scalpers will also not be interested in making another purchase in the future which is a shame. I wish it was possible to do it any other way. We don't mind having these people if I could snap my fingers and undo the actions, except in reality it would mean we have to do a ton of work since we can barely even convince people to be honest to start that conversation.
It's so bad that people go out of their way and pay extra to scalpers to have it.
Life is hard guys! just grab a coffee and enjoy the tasty. Have a nice day!
Virmach Deals
It's so bad that people go out of their way and pay extra to scalpers to have it.
yes. It's right.And only customers hurt here.But Just let it go. Everyone should have a lesson.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
Yet here you are, not letting it go and you're not taking this as a lesson.
Take your own advice before you start giving advice to others.
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here. Do you think there's a better solution outside of just wanting to continue to allow this behavior to proceed? Okay sure let's say we ignored the problems associated with scalpers. Does that immediately also remove the other host of problems directly related to the same group? When they abuse our hospitality constantly in many ways, try to cheat their way to a profit, and make it more difficult to be able to get the product to the consumer directly? When services randomly exchange hands and end up mostly in the hands of abusers, what do we do then? Spend a lot of time for something not intended to be abused to that level? You do realize maybe in your case this isn't true but there's no way to know how many more times it will be traded and who ends up with it. No risk, abusers can just buy random services and use it in the worst way possible just to generate a tiny fraction of a revenue. There's reasons the policy and process exists.
So perhaps in an ideal world if the only problem was the multiple accounts or account sales, and none of the other related problems existed, maybe we could be less harsh.
If I gave you a warning, how would it help you? What would you have wanted done instead? Imagine the conversations we had today and we barely even got into the actual process of appeal, you genuinely believe that for a $8.88 per year service we should dedicate concierge services for hours per person? Because that's what it would take. The $25 fee isn't there to generate profit, it's very in line with the amount of work required in these cases. So when the product ends up being such a low price it seems like an unfair amount, but there's a different cost to a human being's time versus an automated system.
You can answer that or you can continue to tell me "let it go" when you clearly haven't. At any time you can stop responding if you desire.
(edit) And why is it that in this case you believe only the customer hurts? Do you think I want to spend hours doing this just to suspend maybe a few hundred dollars in services? You believe I enjoy the additional work? You do realize we are actually trying to ensure there's evidence for every case before we just randomly hit suspend and that takes time to compile?
Perhaps there's a disconnect between the value of support and a person's time. You should understand that the average salary for someone doing the amount of work here results in the process immediately costing more than it's worth. Yes, I am doing this work myself but if anyone else on our team, even a brand new intern getting paid the minimum did it, the cost would exceed the entire cost of the service.
If VIrmach has informed those customers by email, that's appropriate. Otherwise it's unprofessional.
would rather talking on les than replying ticket? xd
You know that only the customer is injured. Do you still want to do this? I am the injured customer. The trafficker taught me a lesson with you. Do you want to hear some advice? Let me talk about my thoughts. That is to disable the services of those accounts you think are suspicious, and then impose some penalties. And they are prohibited from continuing to modify anything that can be sold, such as modifying mailboxes. It's really painful to suspend the service directly. I paid more, but I was sanctioned by you.
What's your proposal? You haven't actually provided any constructive feedback here
Are you serious?
I think I already gave my feedback here.But you ignored what I said above.Not a big deal here.I won't reply again.
🌟:SpartanHost,Cloudcone,Hostodo,WebHorizon
💩:Virmach,Greencloud,Pacificrack really sucks
Emails are sent on suspension. Anything I discuss here is not necessary, it can be ignored. I'm just enforcing the same policies we always have and doing it in the exact same way. I'm not making up anything new.
Thank you for posting these
got my popcorn eaten up